Teenagers split on learning to 18

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by brazenhussy, May 2, 2007.

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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6612997.stm

    I can see both the for's and against staying in school- having said that I left at the Easter break, returned for my exams-- and never stepped into school / college again -well not for about 12 years anyway!!!!!!!
  2. I think a lot depends on the package, and if it ends up being 2 more years of the same thing it will be an unmitigated disaster. ROSLA failed to make the extra year to 16 be anything more than getting all kids to do GCSEs and thus for many is mainly a waste of time.

    In my opinion just keeping the little blighters in school for 2 more years is wholly inadequate, and the suggestion that some of them can be 'creamed off' into apprenticeships and other vocational training s a joke, those that can will already do that. The real trick and the numpties who are promoting this idea seem to miss this is to ensure that more of the little darlings are actually trainable by the time they get to 16, now that would make a change for the better.
  3. Considering how much they keep saying kids leaving school dont have basic maths skills, how did they manage to work out the percentages??
  4. Exactly! I can't see that if they can't read or write by 16 what difference it could make to keeping them until 18.
    Ye Gods we have 30 year old 'children' still living at home now; what on earth will it be like if they think they can hang around for longer?
    Stick some dynamite in an appropriate place, shove them out then change the locks, and FFS switch off that damn parental control mobile phone.
    Et Voila!
  5. If the powersthat be cannot get them to attend educatonal establishments before they are 16, how are they going to make them attend until they are 18?
  6. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    There is always the problem that if they all stay on & earn A2 levels at the same rate GCSE's are now awarded, the mob will have thousands of officers and too few ratings.

    Now where have I heard that one before?

    ......Where are you Norm?
  7. Maybe they should consider reopening a modern form of HMS Ganges? It would give them an incentive for money, keep them in until 18 (if they left school at 16), a job for afterward and give the Navy some manpower for the next couple of decades. Job's a good 'un!

  8. You'd never get that suggestion past the Human Rights Act... 8O :lol: Anyway "modern" and "Ganges" are not words that one could ever envisage complimenting one another! :twisted:

    How about VSO? Those we don't want back could simply be refused entry upon completing their sting abroad! :twisted:
  9. NO





    I had to put up for long enough in secondary school with those who had no interest in being there, thereby having a very detrimental effect on the education of those who wanted to learn. The disruptive element all left at 16, making the Higher courses (Scottish equivalent of the A level) reasonably pleasant to study. A system whereby everyone was forced to stay in school until 18 would only harm the academic and have no effect on the non-academic/disruptive pupils, other than further putting them off education.

    What makes the government think anyone will leave school for "further training" anyway? - if you can doss around in school for a couple of years achieving nothing then nobody will go out and find work instead!

    Sad to say but I am very glad I am finished with school now if this is the way things are going!
  10. I agree, the present one size fits all comprehensive system fails all our kids, bith those who give the appearance of being two short planks, and those who have shown the ability to get to highers. Before any one even considers keeping all at school or training till 18 they need to completely revam the secondary school system so that it actuallyprovides what kids need and want.
  11. It is far more important to ensure that at 16 school leavers are litterate & numerate.
    Many children with problems are not being identified early enough, often when identified the children refuse to attend the special classses as they are tagged retards by their classmates.
    The education system for slow learners requires rethinking.
  12. I agrre every one needs to be litterate and numerate, but not all fail to achieve that because they are numpties often it is because some or even all of what they are being told they must learn is inappropriate. For example when I was at school we had O Grade Arithmetic (which I managed to pass) which was intended to ensure that all did have basic numeracy and covered the basic skills needed by all. Now one has to do Maths, which covers things which for the average student has little or no relevance to everyday life, is it surprising that many kids are turned off by maths. The science subjects are similar, there should be an 'every day' science based on the bits the average joe/jill needs to understand for every day life, covering some aspects of chemistry, physics biology etc rather tan an in depth understanding of nuclear physics, or other stuff which has little bearing on surviving on the streets today.

    If you hide the useful and neccesary stuff in a lot of things that are in reality irrelevant is it surprising that master or miss chav misses it. When I was at school we had the Lord Provost's certificate which dd establish that those who passed it did have basic literacy and numeracy skills, does any one do this today, no.
  13. As youso wisely state Peter, not everyone who finds English and Maths difficult is a numpty. There are many reasons from dyslexia to those who do not pay atention and misbehave in class in an attempt to be accepted by their mates.
    Bringing back the old style Arithmetic would be a start, most people need to be aware of percentages, compound and simple interest and how tax is calculated and other fairly simple calculations. If we made English and Arithmetic the two core subjects and allocated 50% of the school timetable to them until the pupil was 14 then I believe both numeracy and literacy would improve.
  14. I left school at 14 years old as you can in Guernsey and got a job, studied in my own time and some day release to get professional qualifications (I did accountancy). I think enforced education from 16 is a waste of money.
  15. Like you Phil I lft school early (15) as was the norm in my day, no qualifications but both Literate and numerate.
    I did two O levels at 33, attained an ONC at 37 and completed my HNC at 48. Life is a long learning process and education need not stop once school has been completed.
    Raising the age to18 will not help many youngsters.
  16. It is not so much the time allocated, but the way the subject is presented that matters, if I had understood how useful algebra could be I might have paid more attention, but it was not taught as a problem solving tool rather it was the problem in itself, boring. If education is going to provide the grounding our youngsters need it has to be appropriate.

    One of my sons is an academic and the other is an engineer and the system did ok by them, they got the stuff they needed to be able to do their first degrees, but the poor ones who were going to be plumbers and joiners for example did the same basic courses till they were 16, how much of what they were taught was revlevant, interesting, or ultimately usefulperhaps 30% if they were lucky, with perhaps another 10% being ife enhancing, so much of their time was wasted, is it surprising that many glaze over and become chavs.
  17. Unfortunately Peter there is a dearth of good Maths teachers. I believe that this is due to many being afraid of the subject and droppiing maths at the earliest opportunity. Maths can be made interesting, perhaps the need is for improved teaching methods.
  18. But you don't want to teach them maths you want to make them numerate, the two are radically different, you need good maths to be an engineer, you need to be numerate to be a plumber, and according to some press reports we need more plumbers than engineers.
  19. I don't know how it is in Scotland Peter but in the South of England there is a shortage of both plumbers and electricians (with 16th Edittion). However the government still insist on trying to persuade all youngsters to go to university.
    Trade training, modern apprenticeships could be part of the answer. I believe in days long past firms were given certain allowances to train apprentices.
  20. The old training levy boards were supposed to ensure that companies that paid to train their staff got something back from the compamies who did nt and only employed fully trained staff.

    Up here we do have a reasonably effective training system for craftsmen, and many even small employers do employ trainees who do day release courses, one of my wifes nephews for example works as a trainee for a small joinery business. The problem is not so much training them onece they leave school rather making sure that they are trainable.

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