Taking Holidays

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by Crispyuk, Sep 9, 2008.

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  1. I get the feeling that this may open a real can of worms.... But here goes...

    As an employee of the RNR, we are classed as a part time workers (I assume), and thus entitled to PAID holidays under the Working Time Regulations 1998. So why aren’t we getting it?

    I'm sure someone will mention our Bounty payment as our holiday payment instead of actual holidays... But from the direct.gov.uk website it says an employer can't do this.

    "The entitlement to take four weeks’ holiday in any holiday year, as described above, means that none of the four-week statutory holiday entitlement can be ‘bought out’, instead of actual leave being taken."

    This is also lifted from the direct.gov website on holidays: "A part time worker should be treated no less favourably than an equivalent full-timer."

    So... The question is... Are my assumptions correct? And should we be rushing to our JPA terminals to book our holidays (Lets assume that JPA is working, and can cope with Reservists taking holidays, getting paid correctly, or even exist!).
  2. Sorry to disapoint you but your RNR time is not classified as employment.
    Especially not as part time workers.
    Volunteers is what we are
  3. The MOD has been very clear over the last couple of years, or so, to ensure that the Volunteer Reserve Forces are not referred to as Part Time Workers.
    So I fear this scuppers your point.
  4. Then what are we?

    We get paid a wage... We pay tax.... We can't therefore be volunteers.
  5. "Voluntary"; an adjective meaning by choice, rather than by compulsion. Whilst many voluntary activities are unpaid, and voluntary work often implies unpaid work, being paid or unpaid has no bearing on the meaning of "voluntary", especially in a naval context where the flip side of the coin is conscription. We are volunteer reservists, the regulars are voluntary full-time, and as things currently stand there are no non-volunteer personnel (i.e. no conscripts, except maybe sponsored-reservists of list whatever who have been activated - I'm not sure on that one, since they presumably signed something when they became list whatever in the knowledge that they could be activated in the future).
  6. I believe reservists are classed as "casual labour".

    Yes, really.
  7. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Especially "casual" when dressed in Jack Blair's finest!

    My two penn'orth on the orginal subject:

    FFS what has the UK come to? Why do people join the reserves? Is it for a chance to serve their country supporting the RN, is it for the sartorial elegance offered by the dark blue suits or is it for money/pensions/paid holidays/luncheon vouchers/staff discounts? If the UK has really swung to the "me, me, me" culture where the latter case is predominant. then I'm thankful I'm out of there! <Deep breath, and relax....>

    In my case, I joined the RNR to serve under the white ensign (my wife informs me that I look pretty good in a dark blue suit too!) - while a student, drill payments and bounty certainly came in useful, but if they hadn't been there it wouldn't have affected my service one iota. Looking at the practicialities of granting paid leave (if God forbid, the lawyers get invovled and force the issue), on what basis would the leave be paid? Do you take the case of someone meeting bounty and giving them 4 drill payments as their paid holiday? Ridiculous idea that should be strangled before it gets any further. <Another deep breath.... and relax again....>
  8. Well said Flag Wagger. I never served in the RNR but my during last year in the regulars (first time around!) I was involved in the training of the RNR New Entries. A more dedicated bunch it would be hard to find, and I thoroughly enjoyed being involved with them. I still kick myself for not joining, or at least applying to join, while I was 'young' enough.

    Crispy's comments are, as you say, indicative of the selfish culture in today's society and are far removed from the loyalty and professionalism I witnessed at the end of the 90's.
  9. FlagWagger. Nicely summed up I would say. I have to admit to being slightly taken aback by quite a few of the threads in this RNR forum.
  10. Unfortunately this was raised in court a few years ago on behalf of some TA guys, that was where the casual employment came to the fore.

    Have a search on ARRSE and check out the comments. You do get holidays where you're mobilised/demob'd so it's not all bad.
  11. Don't get FW excited now :)
  12. The thread is less about "me me me" but simple fairness. The MoD wants the RNR to be a more “Part Time Navy†with a seamless transition between full time and Reservists. Thus, a more flexible maritime force. That in turn, means the need for a standard base for all Services; Regular or Reservist.

    I didn’t join for the RNR for pay, holidays or pension. I joined to serve Queen, Country and have some fun along the way! If I or others in the RNR are in it for the money, they are sadly deluded with the majority of personnel getting paid less than minimum wage. I just wanted to raise the point that there seems an inequality between the two sides of our armed services. I am quite happy to be told there is no holiday entitlement, but where is the transparency?

    During my time in the RNR, I have had my sole source of income coming from the RNR while I was unemployed in my civilian life (Not any more thankfully). Whatever title is put on us as employees of MoD(N), do we not deserve the same rights (pro rata) as our regular counterparts? Do you think the Regulars would be happy if they had no holidays? Many of us give up our civilian holidays to serve (I’m self employed, so I don’t get holidays from anyone).

    Guzzler’s comments I deeply resent. I am not a selfish person. I give up what little time I have from my civilian life and family to serve my country. I also have been involved in a number of national charities giving up my time and energies to better the lives of others. Do not mistake fairness with selfishness!
  13. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    I think the acronym JTFC sums up my reaction to this. Why in the name of god would you want a holiday when the maximum time you work is 2 weeks long?

    You accept when volunteering that you are willingly chosing to spend your spare time doing something different and you get paid into the bargain. If you have such limited spare time that you cant find time to balance life with the RNR, then perhaps you should leave the RNR.

    Pathetic drivel like this makes me ashamed to think that you are in the same service as myself. You are the sort of pathetic wimp that knows all the BR's inside out, but the value of nothing. Your attitude is setting the RNR back 20 years in the eyes of the regulars, who will see or hear about this thread and think "oh christ, fecking RNR whining again".

    CrispyUK, my personal view is that you are a total disgrace to this service. Do us all a favour and leave your MOD90 with the gate guard on the way out.
  14. I'm glad to see that healthy debate isn't dead!

    I see from the TA section of ARRSE that they are able to debate this without resorting to name calling... A sad state of affairs from the Senior Service!

    I think unless there are an constructive comments, we'll call it ENDEX on this topic and agree to disagree.
  15. The fúck it is. Maybe in your branch, shippers!
  16. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    Sorry Albert - should have been more clear.

    The maximum normal time a reservist is available is around 2 weeks, with anything longer usually being done under ADC or FTRS, both of which are effectively full time contracts and done under normal working conditions with leave. That is very different to work done for normal annual training in my book. Lets leave deployments to one side too as they are different.
  17. Do you not, like, have holidays midweek, after all, you only turn to at the weekends?

    (Stands from under :thumright: )
  18. ADC sorry?

    As for the general flow of the debate, I see no reason why the RNRs should be entitled to paid holidays, the RNR is a hobby and everyone joins because it is what they want to do in their spare time, the MOD compensates this commitment by paying its reservists a wage (albeit dependant on JPA's frame of mind), AND an annual bounty! I wouldn't say the reservists are doing too badly considering it is something they are supposed to enjoy!!
  19. You know, i really can't see why some regulars think we're money grabbing mercinaries just out for what we can get?

    Jesus f*cking christ! I can't beleive that someone has actually had either-

    a) the stupidity
    b) the brass neck

    to ask such a question!

    I'd like to be paid for what i do. I'd like my expenses to be paid in a fair and reasonable manner in a reasonable amount of time. I'd like the RNR to stop looking for little loopholes to catch people out and avoid paying them either bounty, expenses or pay - but holiday pay!!!! You must be taking the p*ss.

    Please someone tell me this is someone anchoring for a bite. o_O
  20. Well! If he is, he certainly appears to be doing rather well at it!


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