Support Manager???

dubaipusser

Lantern Swinger
M1113 said:
I did not realise SMs had a patron saint! How long have had had the position?
Do you can finance or is it free ?[/quote]

Not going in to bat for SMs any more than I would for anyone else who was being sniped at for the wrong reasons - just get fed up of people shooting their mouths off without thinking first.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
dubaipusser said:
trehorn said:
i couldn't give a toss what he wears its the fact that he's been dishing out cash lef right and centre for six months only to discover that come february the cupboards will be bare.

In a civilian company you'd be shot for that!
Oh for God's sake - he does what he is told to do and is required to work within very strict financial management parameters!

He is given a budget and he spends to that budget - have you ever seen the monthly/periodic returns that the SM has to send in? He will probably be working to an expenditure trend based on his in-year budget allocation plus previous years spending pattern and he will aim to reflect the current year spend accordingly.

If he is overspending against trend he gets asked why; if he is underspending against trend he gets asked why.

If he had held the money back there you would be criticising him for treating the money like it was his own and refusing to spend it - get a life!

If the money has run out ahead of plan there are likely to be 2 reasons;

1. The budget has been cut
2. People have been spending ahead of plan because training has been blobbed up rather than spread across the year (in a unit that has a predominance across one or two specialisations that could easily happen if training typically takes place at a certain time (The Medics always used to go off to Saighton Camp at the same time of year for example)
Good points dp, but why aren't these issues more visible in the units? Since the inception of the SM role, I've heard numerous excuses from the admin function (Wtrs + SM) about the budgets being capped (travel particularly) but rarely any real solid information. If the RNR treated us like adults and gave us the salient information we might be able to better understand the reasoning behind certain decisions and also to suggest ways that we could make our limited funds work more efficiently.

I acknowledge that public money needs to be fully accountable when spent by the naval service, but we also need to be able to spend the money wisely and effectively - the fact that we can't isn't the fault of the SM per se, but the system within which we have to work and, which needs to be changed to achieve the efficiency savings trumpeted by our lords and masters in Government.
 

dubaipusser

Lantern Swinger
FlagWagger said:
[Good points dp, but why aren't these issues more visible in the units? Since the inception of the SM role, I've heard numerous excuses from the admin function (Wtrs + SM) about the budgets being capped (travel particularly) but rarely any real solid information. If the RNR treated us like adults and gave us the salient information we might be able to better understand the reasoning behind certain decisions and also to suggest ways that we could make our limited funds work more efficiently.

I acknowledge that public money needs to be fully accountable when spent by the naval service, but we also need to be able to spend the money wisely and effectively - the fact that we can't isn't the fault of the SM per se, but the system within which we have to work and, which needs to be changed to achieve the efficiency savings trumpeted by our lords and masters in Government.
FW - thanks for the response - I agree with everything you have said and I can't think of any possible reason why the RNR doesn't treat us like adults over things like this ... regrettably my recommended solution is likely to summon up nothing but derision but it starts with - use the Divisional System to lobby the CO, RNSO, SM and other PSIs to address the problem. You might even find that a well argued, fully costed 'civilianised' option might go down well with CMR and also win the Unit a couple of extra Brownie points at WUA time.
 

trehorn

War Hero
dubaipusser said:
[Oh for God's sake - he does what he is told to do and is required to work within very strict financial management parameters!

He is given a budget and he spends to that budget - have you ever seen the monthly/periodic returns that the SM has to send in? He will probably be working to an expenditure trend based on his in-year budget allocation plus previous years spending pattern and he will aim to reflect the current year spend accordingly.

If he is overspending against trend he gets asked why; if he is underspending against trend he gets asked why.

If he had held the money back there you would be criticising him for treating the money like it was his own and refusing to spend it - get a life!

If the money has run out ahead of plan there are likely to be 2 reasons;

1. The budget has been cut
2. People have been spending ahead of plan because training has been blobbed up rather than spread across the year (in a unit that has a predominance across one or two specialisations that could easily happen if training typically takes place at a certain time (The Medics always used to go off to Saighton Camp at the same time of year for example)

I suggest Trehorn, that if you have been 'disadvantaged' you take a long hard look at who in your unit has been spending more than they should more often than they should rather than kick a guy for doing the job he is told to do - the SM doesn't make the rules, he follows them ... or he is replaced by someone who will!

Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed - the RNR isn't a civilian company, it spends public money and therefore the budget holders have to be even more judicious about how they spend it - we may not like it and we may be able to point out abuse and waste and mismanagement but that is life where the grown ups live.
At the beginning of the year we're told that we can have 32 days training a year BUT if the training is branch related and geared towards our progression within the RNR we can have as much training as we like.

I for one have filled my boots with the relevant training under the impression that because it is related to my progression it is GOOD for the RNR. I HAVEN'T used up my days with walking, sailing, ski-ing etc.

What I'm getting at is the fact that as opposed to monitoring the budget throughout the year and 'dabbing the brakes gently' as they go along it seems to me they've waited six months to check the outgoings, panicked and anchored full on.

I work in finance mate, i work to budgets and if i got half way through a project and then told the boss we'd spent up i'd be down the road like a shot.

I wouldn't mind if they refused the odd weekend as the year progresses as it shows that they are monitoring the budget but to slam the anchors on genuine training requirements smacks of bad management to me.
 

trehorn

War Hero
dubaipusser said:
Oh for God's sake - he does what he is told to do and is required to work within very strict financial management parameters!

He is given a budget and he spends to that budget - have you ever seen the monthly/periodic returns that the SM has to send in? He will probably be working to an expenditure trend based on his in-year budget allocation plus previous years spending pattern and he will aim to reflect the current year spend accordingly.

If he is overspending against trend he gets asked why; if he is underspending against trend he gets asked why.

If he had held the money back there you would be criticising him for treating the money like it was his own and refusing to spend it - get a life!

If the money has run out ahead of plan there are likely to be 2 reasons;

1. The budget has been cut
2. People have been spending ahead of plan because training has been blobbed up rather than spread across the year (in a unit that has a predominance across one or two specialisations that could easily happen if training typically takes place at a certain time (The Medics always used to go off to Saighton Camp at the same time of year for example)

I suggest Trehorn, that if you have been 'disadvantaged' you take a long hard look at who in your unit has been spending more than they should more often than they should rather than kick a guy for doing the job he is told to do - the SM doesn't make the rules, he follows them ... or he is replaced by someone who will!

Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed - the RNR isn't a civilian company, it spends public money and therefore the budget holders have to be even more judicious about how they spend it - we may not like it and we may be able to point out abuse and waste and mismanagement but that is life where the grown ups live.
Do you want your teddy back now?
 

trehorn

War Hero
And while i'm ranting i would like to inform you that the kind of financial management that winds me up is when they refuse training on the AJAX barge which involves travelling from Portsmouth to Plymouth with the travel paid by the individuals and authorise training on the Ajax barge which involves travelling from Leeds to Plymouth with travel paid by the unit???

Explain the sense in that!
 

dubaipusser

Lantern Swinger
trehorn said:
[
Do you want your teddy back now?
Do I want MY teddy back? - Listen to yourself.

I guessed you were the problem, now you have given us the proof - you 'filled your boots' and the money has gone - and you say you work in finance - what sort of organisation do you know that has unlimited budgets?

You were told you could have "as much training as you like" were you also told that Santa only brings presents to good boys and the Tooth Fairy will give you a shilling if you leave your tooth under the pillow?

Grow up!
 

trehorn

War Hero
I'm not the one managing the budgets. I requested the training, they authorised it.

"THERE WILL BE NO RESTRICTIONS ON JUSTIFIABLE BRANCH TRAINING".
This didnt just come from the unit but from DNRES/COMARES whatever tey call themselves these days.

I'm assuming that if they authorise it then its justifiable?
What do you take it to mean???

Like i said, i wouldn't mind if, as they have done on previous years, they restricted the training throughout the year. As opposed to stopping training in December.

I never mentioned, or assumed anyone having an unlimited budget, however as with most projects if justifiable variations, extras etc arise then extra money is made available. Whether it comes from the unit, COMARES, fleet or the Queen herself i dont care.

If they don't have the money then they shouldn't tell you that training won't be restricted. Surley it would be better not to tell people it won't be restricted then people would manage (in-part at least) it themselves.

How many weekends have you attended this year where the take up has been poor and future weekends threatened if the attendance doesn't improve?
 

dubaipusser

Lantern Swinger
I still don't see how it is the Support Managers fault if he did as he was instructed and now has had the rug pulled from underneath him.

It is all too easy to publicly lambast someone when things don't go according to expectations. Presumably at the time you took advantage of the training the budget was available to spend - now it isn't.

Feel free to complain about not being able to undertake any more training but before you point the finger of blame at the SM (who merely manages the money allocated to him) make sure it is his fault.

On a separate but related topic, we need a team of 3 in Dubai but have had to make do with 2 plus periodic augmentation since May. The periodic augmentation stopped in October and we won't get back up to full strength until late January - THAT is an impact of budget cuts but you don't see me blaming budget managers for it - the money has been stripped out of the system and that is all there is to it.
 

wanderer

Midshipman
Your SM must be the one exception. Our SM thinks the budget he holds is his personal money and only gives it out when cornered. He actually tried not to pay a Rating who took part in the Albert Hall Parade because he didn't see him/her on the TV!!

He also thinks he knows all about guard training and ceremonial divisions even though his drill instructions went out with the flintlock and insists on getting involved! He also tries to badger the RNSO's into thinking that he runs the Unit.
So good luck, you must have a good'un.
 

Lurch

Badgeman
DP, fully agree with you about not shooting the messenger and all that. Part of the problem, and it's been this way for a couple of years now is that RNR units suddenly found that they were having to pay the T&S for people who went off on exercises, when previously it had been funded out the exercise budget. To no ones great surprise it seems that there was no corresponding increase in the T&S budget for the RNR to make up for this shortfall.
 
An interesting arguement. Some units seem to be lucky and others don't. Perhaps that inconsistancy is part of the problem. I always understood the SMs TORs to be more than just financial.
 

trehorn

War Hero
Another reason why our budget may be a little short -

Up until 18 months ago only the drivers would recieve a C442 (travel expense form) I was only when we go our new Chief writer that we were told that we should ALL get one.

So for over 4 years we've all been missing out on our over 5's. Bearing in mind it takes us over 5 hours to get anywhere worth training (Portsmouth, Plymouth, Faslane, Rosyth).

Now the new expences allow us to claim for £5.00 per night while in MOD accomodation, up to £21.00 per day for over 5 hours travel. People milk it. I myself am happy with a sandwich and a bottle of water but i've seen people with 3 litre bottles of pop, bargain buckets, massive bags of sweets just because they can claim it back.

Who needs £21 for food for 5 hours?
 

dubaipusser

Lantern Swinger
trehorn said:
Another reason why our budget may be a little short -

Up until 18 months ago only the drivers would recieve a C442 (travel expense form) I was only when we go our new Chief writer that we were told that we should ALL get one.

So for over 4 years we've all been missing out on our over 5's. Bearing in mind it takes us over 5 hours to get anywhere worth training (Portsmouth, Plymouth, Faslane, Rosyth).

Now the new expences allow us to claim for £5.00 per night while in MOD accomodation, up to £21.00 per day for over 5 hours travel. People milk it. I myself am happy with a sandwich and a bottle of water but i've seen people with 3 litre bottles of pop, bargain buckets, massive bags of sweets just because they can claim it back.

Who needs £21 for food for 5 hours?
Good point - I get considerably less than that for 24 hours including all meals, phone call home etc
 

Captain_Jacks

Lantern Swinger
Have you seen the new one

we have all to pay part of our own travel for the RNR, for home to duties!! :cry:

try claiming that one back :?:

more cuts to follow
 

dunkers

War Hero
Captain_Jacks said:
Have you seen the new one

we have all to pay part of our own travel for the RNR, for home to duties!! :cry:

try claiming that one back :?:

more cuts to follow
Is this official? (Yet?!)
 

trehorn

War Hero
Our RTC have capped mileage at max 50 miles each way.

Which is good cos the RTC is 80 miles away from the tender unit!!!


work that one out?
 

icantfly

Lantern Swinger
Captain_Jacks said:
Have you seen the new one

we have all to pay part of our own travel for the RNR, for home to duties!! :cry:

try claiming that one back :?:

more cuts to follow
Oh you can shove it if that comes in! It's taking long enough to be paid for the ORT - I am not shouldering the costs for travelling to the Unit. If they do that, then anyone who lives/works more than 10 miles from the Unit will quit overnight..
 

Latest Threads

Top