Sundodgers take out Dippers

Discussion in 'The Fleet Air Arm' started by Nutty, Jul 29, 2007.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Take a look lads, what are the Navy to do with all the Mk VIII Torpedoes they have laying about? Well secret trials reveal they are resurrecting an old practice and trials have been resumed recently. Pic from my Clyde
    spy of fish exiting the surface.

    Method: Establish position of Dipper in hover, then from depth 35 metres fire Mk VIII diesel torpedo with full rise set on its planes from the calculated firing point. Torpedo travelling at 50 mph exits water on upward trajectory. one and half tons of fish meets hovering helicopter. No contest bye-bye Helio.


  2. Looks like excellent improvisation to me Nutty!!
  3. No its is a real photograph which can be found on Pag 43 of "The T Class Submarine" by Paul J Kemp.ISBN 1-55750-826-7. Underneath the exiting fish is HMS/m Truncheon and I was on board her as part of her 63 man crew. Maybe I had moved the dates a tad, but poetic licence is allowed.

    So still be afraid dippers.

  4. Nutty
    Is there any link between you serving on HMS/m Truncheon and then becomming a rozzer in later life?
  5. "Slim you are an obvious case for a bit of Police brutality"


    PS Slim I think the silence from the Airy Fairies on this subject is that they know that it is difficult to achieve a hit but it can be done and it is not something they want to know.
  6. And of course none of that sophisticated listening equipment on the Dippers sonar would hear it coming ?

    Just out of curiosity Nutty, if it was feasible, how high out of the water would that torpedo rise?
  7. There was an incident (some time in the early 80s I believe) when one of the SM3 “O†boats fired a green grenade from its after SSE. Sadly, and unknown by the boat, there was a helo in the dip just above the boat. Helicopter rotor blades and burning phosphorous grenades don’t mix. So sadly, it has happened that a boat has taken out a dipper.
  8. I do not actualy know as I was always underneath, but is you see how far a SSN comes out of the water from deep doing about 30 to 35 knots I would think that 15 to 20 feet plus the length of the fish another 20 ft could easily be conidered feasable. How high to helios hover when dipping?

    Why would they **** off when they hear a torpedo discharged, until they learn, then they will have to stop dipping and re-locate if they held you to start off with. That is what you are trying to achieve to slope away.

    The trials in fact were in Stokes Bay and held to assess the feasability of cruise missile, subrock etc being able to be discharged from normal tubes and clearing the surface for ignition.

    But that may have just been the cover story to make helio crews feel safe.

  9. Nutty I'm not absolutely sure at what height they dip at, or are supposed to. I have seen them at various heights. Given your calcs. It would be feasible I suppose. Until now, I have only ever heard the Pingers side of the story
    I thought Subs had a weapons system that homed on the helo via the dippers Sonar buoy any way?
    I do know that during the Falklands war, the Pingers we had onboard are reputed to have killed several whales. Spurious?
  10. Nutty, there is no such thing as police brutality, the suspect was resisting arrest, there was a mis-understanding, there was a slightoverreaction by the police officer --- but no brutality!
  11. Nutty, maybe a bit of a pedants Q but will said fish jump 40ft clear of the waves? That is about the usual height for a doppler hover for a pinger. I did know someone who worked at Prestwick and saw a stingray (practice) jump a few feet into the air trying to catch the SU of its own launch aircraft.....

    Besides, didnt you have the "stinger missile tube" on HMS Twatbat?.... :rambo: That little rumour had the obs scouring the surface for a while..... I can just picture the fun as you wait poised to go up in the fin and lob a javelin/stinger etc at said woos. (malta dog shoot warning to the uninitiated)

    Anyway, helios are, well, just don't call em a phone (see ads on youtube etc)

    Helos, wokka wokkas, petrol pidgeons, budgies, can all be taken out with a coke can ring pull if you believe your FOD plods......
  12. I was think more of the interview situation where a very minor pop person alleged that I said it to him as part of two fullscape pages typed letter of complaint about me. OK half a page was about the arresting officer the other one and half I was the star.

  13. H out of Steps? Ken out of Bros? The other one from Black Lace??? Come on Nutty, gis' a clue!

  14. HMS/m Aeneas was fitted with a four tube SLAM TV Guided missle system on an extendable mast. see pic. But who is going to stick bit of kit the size of a fridge freezer above th water shout look I am over here. An excellent failure.


  15. The fish would not jump 40 feet clear (ie, the tail) of the water but providing there is 5 or 6 foot of it to smack the wokka wokka(I do like that name, never seen it before) But the business end 40 or more.

  16. Nutty, there is one further problem with firing at unwanted helos, he almost certainly has something to fire back and a submarine is a slightly bigger target. However I must admit that if a torpedo suddenly lurched out of the oggin at me I would be impressed, even if it did miss.

    Further question, did the Soviets have choppers in the ASW role?
  17. So its possible then, as a seaking in doppler hover controlled by AFCS is pretty vulnerable and slow moving, cant imagine the Merlin is much different. Maybe a pinger pilot would care to evaluate?

    Love the four blowpipes on a stick, as you point out just the sight of that breaking the surface would be a WTF moment, never mind if you hung around long enough to see one light off. HMS Gilette indeed!! Classic! :clap:
  18. I dunno, most air launched ASW weapons could barely knock the sonar ops headset off. Might damage the steering gear if it drove into it or get caught on the towed array.

    Soviets had Ka-25 Hormone and Ka-27/32 Helix with dunking sonar, but I always thought they were a bit pants, and politely declined a ride in one when offered (twin contra-rotating blades, scarier than a chinook on fire)
  19. PS Did you also notice the SSG72 number painted on the fin when all numbers had been painted out. In 1972 only bombers had missiles in the Pusser world of boats. Note also the boats crest painted enlarged on the fin front with a missle added to the Greek Warrior in the badge.
  20. Thanks SC, I was always under the (mistaken) impression that ASW choppers packed a reasonable sized punch. The Nimrod ASW people certainly claimed to be able to put a submarine out of their misery (and try hitting one a Nimrod with a torpedo!)

Share This Page