Submariners v General Service

Discussion in 'Submariners' started by stan_the_man, Apr 11, 2008.

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  1. Mmmmm very dodgy topic but I would welcome constructive comments. For years the submarine fraternity has delivered a positive and consistant endorsement of their superiority over general service. I wonder how this has develped after all I remember being on Cherry B in 74 and visiting Warspite claustrophobic yes but better accomodation than a Leander. What have they achieved since, yes they sank Belgrano an old WW2 cruiser. the general service and fleet air arm beat the argies in the end. As for up north war games really even if you can't shower as often as GS but at least you go in hotels ashore.
    Tomahawk is delivered from 500 NM plus so where's the danger there.
    My humble opinion post WW2 you have given yourselves a reputation that is elitist but underserved.
    Wouldn't do it myself but all I ever saw in Devonport were submariners with the LS&GC and Jubilee Medal.
    I still love you all but take a reality check.
    I sit back and await the flack after all you did get paid for it which is why most of you transferred.
     
  2. Lord Percy: "The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed, hasn't he, Percy?"
     
  3. 21 man
    endorsing or calling me a tosser - debate is useful, but if you are a submariner doesn't thou just endorse my comments.
     
  4. An interesting point that is bound to get peoples backs up. But i do agree with you in some ways.

    For me, volunteering for s/m service was the biggest mistake of my service career. Once your in, your pretty much stuck unless you go a bit wibble in the head. After six years enough was enough for me but i was very fortunate to get manning clearance to branch change. I no longer wear dolphins on my nos1's as they don't really mean anything to me.

    Agree about TLAM- but living conditions are mega shite on a boat compared to even the worst pussers grey, and hotels do not make up for the overallsmaller amount of jollies.

    For quite a while I was a total sceptic about the elitist nature of s/m service until i recently had the privilege of spending time with GS during a workup. quite honestly it was shocking and the submariners had the upper hand professionally on that one without a doubt.

    Your comment on medals is a non starter. there are loads of guys around with 6/7 campaign medals and have never been on the upper deck, not alone ever seen any action. That said, there are also quite a few matelots that have well deserved medals. Its always hard to tell when you see medals on an RN uniform.

    For me personally, now i have left the s/m service i work longer hours, get paid pretty much the same, get sent to sandy places, do more time away and enjoy my current employment much more than i ever enjoyed being a submariner. But then there are guys who love the s/m service and you will never change that :thumright:
     
  5. Well I will give my opinion as it seemed we served at the same time Stan.

    I did my bit of GS on Antrim,Ulster and Rame Head and then I decided to put in a C240 for HMS Newcastle and Drafty told me I was staying where I was for another 6 months or so.
    A week later I get my draft chit thru for Submarine Training(Thanks Drafty !!),wanted P&O boats at Dolphin and got on Bombers in Faslane so a lot of sense there.

    But I will say even tho I didnt get any jollies on Bombers as I did in GS I had a great time compared to GS.
    The Camaraderie was brilliant and there were no branch divisions or seperate mess spaces on Boats,but as you have never experienced Boats Stan you personally cant compare one to the other in my opinion.
     
  6. Hey airy fairey
    My daughter is a WOO now so please don't get me wrong but the submarine fraternity in devonport were just a bunch of pisshead *******, respect has to be earned and quite frankly the modern submariner is way below the curve compared to his GS equivelant. Earn the respect don't expect it to be given as a right because of previous generations achievements. Submariner accom in Devonport is dirty and squalid but in my opinion so are the occupants.
    Come on guys live up to your branches past.
    I for one will respect and ackknowledge your achievements.
     
  7. Pissheads yes, but not all *******. i think that's a bit of a simplistic view.

    Having served on boats and ships my opinion is that submariners have the upper hand, but in agreement with you it doesn't mean they automatically get my respect.

    Have you ever been to sea on a boat? if the answer is no then you cannot gauge someones professional ability's on the fact they like to get shitfaced, because most of the military chill out by getting smashed don't they?
     
  8. No flack however I feel I must respond to your post. Having spent a number of years in the RN serving both above and below the oggin, I find your comments very ill informed.

    The Submarine Service are in no way considers itself "superior" to their General Service counterparts, however they are proud of and thoroughly deserve the reputation they have for professionalism and attention to detail.

    As for accommodation being better than a Leander you are talking from where the sun don't shine shipmate. You mention hotels. Recently a type 23 returned to Devonport after a nine month deployment having carried out over 20 Port visits. An SSN returned to her home port after a nine month deployment having carried out 3 port visits. Does that put things into perspective?

    What have they achieved? Well quite a lot actually. Might I suggest you read a book entitled Blind Mans Buff by Sherry Sontag. It might enlighten you as to what actually went on in respect to cold war operations. Admittedly the book is written from a US perspective but mention is made of UK boats.

    In addition to Conqueror sinking the Belgrano (an old WW2 cruiser in your words.) HMS Onyx played an active part in the Falklands campaign moving and landing members of "The Regiment" from one clandestine location to another. It is no secret and in the public domain that other boats were sat in Argentinian territorial waters transmitting flash signals to the British Forces warning of impending air attacks.

    During the 1991 Gulf war, two Oberon class submarines were in area at all times supporting British Special Forces. Other Submarines were strategically deployed to counter any threat from any Arab forces that may have decided to team up with Saddam.

    The former Yugoslavia: The British Government released to the press two years after hostilities ended, that UK submarines were in area at all times in support of UK Government policy.

    The war on terror: Royal Navy submarines have launched TLAM attacks in accordance with UK policy.

    And now: It is UK Government policy not to disclose any Submarine operations however there is one Trident SSBN on patrol at all times and various SSN's on patrol in waters around the world.

    Spookily enough where ever there is conflict the Royal Navy responds with both surface and sub surface units.

    I and many serving Submariners are proud to wear various campaign medals on our uniforms, having the LSGC and Jubilee medal(s) is a bonus it means I got more medals than me old dad who served both in WW2 and Korea

    Elitist? Perhaps. Deserved? Without a shadow of a doubt!

    Eat shit :thumright:
    IDOITDEEPER
     
  9. Having served on both, Silent Service and Targets, I can honestly say, that hands down the professionalism on submarines whilst at sea was second to none, always on heightened alert and ready to leap out of the pit and into the action, on the targets you had to shake people to get them to respond to anything, the bloody ship could be sinking and the response was pathetic...

    Also the esprit de cour was always apparent, and was/is a positive thing...you have to rely on your messmates more so on a submarine to ensure your survival then on board a ship, some people could go a whole tour on a ship and not know everyone, or go past the hanger.

    Meals on submarines, always the best, whenever you wanted them, duty watches were tight but the off time compensated for it, no such thing as work while alongside in foreign ports (at least it used to be that way) if you weren't required for duty, then don't hang about the boat, unless it was to collect some duty frees.... :dwarf:

    Officers/snotters were for the most part human and treated the crew with respect, or it was a short career in boats for them....

    Depending on the quantity of boats, they were always available for some target to do some ASW exercises, even though the boat just got back in from a 3 or 4 Month exchange, or the zoomies wanted to drop little sonar buoys to make sure they knew to hit the water...

    Cox'n was the arbiter of punishment (unless it was serious then the XO) and it was usually meted out accordingly.....at sea everyone was Bob/Bill/Jim or Harry or smudge or Knobby or Dinger it was never Yes sir no sir 3 bags full sir, that was for alongside the wall, but even ashore it was cordial.

    But seeing as how I have served on both, my opinion counts, where as yours doesn't and you can go shit in your hat.

    As for Airy Fairy and not wearing the Dolphins, your loss skipper, the less people know you were connected to the Silent Service the better... :thumright:
     
  10. After 18 years of my 25 in boats it can all be summed up in conquests.

    We were only ever sunk once and that was when a junior officer was doing training, we, on the other hand, sank over 20 surface combatants including the Ark Royal twice even with all her anti sub helos, you would have thought we could have never got near her after the first time.

    I felt a lot safer at 500 feet than I know you were at zero feet.
     
  11. No need to take it personally mate. Since leaving boats i have some other nice badges on my uniform that I have worked very hard for, sweat and tears type stuff. The dolphins were, in comparison, very easy to earn and by wearing everything it all gets a bit boy-scoutish dont you think? Like i said above it is not my proudest acheivement so cant be bothered stopping off in Guzz to replace them, thats all :thumright:
     
  12. Here you are skimmers, have some change!!!!
     
  13. Yes, submariners are the richest people in the world arn't they :roll: MONG!
     
  14. I personally do have a great deal of respect for submariners probably because as a skimmer it was something i probably would not or could not do my only experience of submarines was being torpedoed in 82 which was such a big event nobody realised it had happened until 2 years later
     
  15. My apologies I shouldn,t put controversial topics on the site after consuming a little vino.
    All part of the same navy and yes I do have the utmost admiration for those that go to sea in boats even if it is only occasionally these days -especially TRAFALGAR
     
  16. That 'war games' comment.
    To those on the outside looking in they may have apeared so...to those who were at the pointy end they were definitely not!
    Someday the MOD my declassify these 'war games' though I doubt it very much indeed. Then Stan the man can say 'oops, sorry boys...my goof'. But we will forgive him because he really did not know what he was talking about.......bigtime!!!!
     
  17. Hey SELJUK
    Thanks for the forgiveness, however I was J2 Maritime - Russian desk for 2 years and probably know a little more than you. AND yes I still admire you. Vino is a terrible curse makes me such a ****** at times well most of the time.
    And it is nice when you guys bite.
     
  18. 20 out of 22 in boats. Yes enjoyed it back in the day.
    Would have probably enjoyed being on surface raiders
    as well for the much greater choice of runs ashore
    when we HAD a Navy and a few more places to go.
    Then, all these wars started, Defence cuts started to
    chew everything up and it all went political. The Cold
    War was bloody interesting.....the Cod War (for the
    surface raiders) was just as dodgy. We all do/did our
    bit - no matter if we were/are under the waves or
    on top of 'em. I did not volunteer for Submarine Service,
    but stayed because it were a reet good laff. ENDEX
     
  19. MY reply was definitely not a bite.....however don't assume that because you sat behind a desk for a while makes you all about on the goings on oop north and other stuff. If it did you would most definitely would have wound your neck in.
    Yep, you may consider my last remark a bite!

    Stan...
    El vino eh...hope it was red...me no likee white. Can't drink white...white's fer sippin'. Reds fer neckin and fallin' over.
     
  20. SELJUK Ouch mate but yes a nice Merlot.
    My boss was FOSM nice guy but as for his kiddie fiddlin Cdr he got his just desserts. For the record it wasn't nice pulling my dead shipmates out of the water off Iraq in 2003 but I did it and I will never forget them or their families for the sacrifice they made.
    Take care mate
     

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