Stories fiasco hurt Navy, chief admits

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by alhucoll, Apr 29, 2007.

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  1. Worth a read guys and gals:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/29/navy29.xml

    (Quoted from the Telegraph)
    Admiral Band-
    He says: "As the First Sea Lord, I have ultimate responsibility for the fighting effectiveness of the Navy and for our distinctive ethos, morale, reputation and image. I intend to meet those responsibilities in full."
    His letter adds: "Our unique reputation established over 500 years will withstand this setback, and you can be sure that I will do whatever is necessary to ensure that this is the case."

    The tone of his letter differs markedly from comments he made on the day the two sailors sold their stories, when he said: "I would not agree at all that it was not our finest hour. I stand by what they did."
     
  2. Interesting article in the Telegraph. Thanks for posting the link. I suppose the whirring sound we hear is Lord Admiral Nelson spinning in his grave. The Navy, like any large bureaucratic organization has it's moments both good & bad. Time to chalk up the incident under "Lessons Learned" and move on. I'm reminded of the old axiom that says; Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
     
  3. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Still think JB is tops as 1SL, to my mind Des Browne's the one that seems to miss the point with regard taking the wage, delegating the task but never the responsibility.
     
  4. There will be time enough to move on after there has been some accountability. Accountability for how the capture was allowed to happen. Accountability for what occurred during the time that the captives were being held. Accountability for the events after the captives were released. I'm more inclined to believe that the whirring that you can hear is the noise of the Royal Navy covering it's arse.

    RM
     
  5. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    1SL's dit seen in full last week and his words deeply impressed. Now it is public perhaps now is the time to make the repairs 1SL speaks of. I (like others who care about the RN's image) have hung our heads and waded in to our selected target(s). Now hopefully the story is off the front pages (fingers crossed) the RN and RM can shake off the hiccup, regroup and apply the lessons learned/to be learned even if there is a can to be carried.

    Something and someone warry, heroic and casualty free is needed but although the Booties hanging off the Apaches recently was awesome, it didn't get the profile that the recent affair did.

    For what it's worth, a USN oppo who has his finger on the pulse of RN/RM matters says that the Iran kidnap story (during or after) hardly registered Stateside among civvies or Navy. Maybe the bad news didn't travel too far.
     
  6. I think every cascade or galaxy note gets leaked, it's just that some are more newsworthy than others.

    Indeed
     
  7. There was a fair amount of coverage in the USA; certainly several times a day on National Public Radio. The right-wing media were predictably full of "this could never have happened to the USN" whilst the saner news outlets did some good analyses of why there should be no over-reaction to the Iranians.

    It went pear-shaped and sympathy evaporated with the return of the 15 captives and the behaviour of two of them. To me it revealed just how cleverly the Iranians outsmarted the British. No harsh treatment but a shrewd understanding of the British psyche. A flick on an idiot's neck, the nickname of Mr.Bean, the confiscation of his iPod and the entire Royal Navy was tarred with the same brush and became a laughing stock.

    For centuries the British have understood that the price of admiralty is high and usually paid in blood. I really believe that the Royal Navy is at a pivotal point and should be utterly ruthless in apportioning blame and punishment and that this needs to be done publicly.

    RM
     
  8. Totally right,couldn't say it better myself.
    i still think though that this went all the way to the top and Bliar himself.Hopefully when he's gone his role in all of this will come into the public domain!
     
  9. It's published verbatim on page 10 of the May edition of NN. The nationals I'm guessing will be picking over this month's copy of the paper especially...
     
  10. Not sure if anyone care's but the story wasn't big in Australia either

     
  11. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    This story, although painful for all, will subside. They always do.

    For example, I am really surprised that this story has not been mentioned at all:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/919437.stm


    I have been subjected to some mick taking by my Army colleagues, but the gentle use of the 7 words of power

    "Sierra Leone, Royal Irish, West Side Boys"

    makes them magically shut the f up. Its amazing how fast it works and I recommend its use against any pongoe abuse.
     
  12. In reality such incidents are not uncommn where frontiers are not well defined and there is a bit of political tension in the air. I suspect that in general the procedures were about right in that being more agressive in the way such searches were carried out would only have increased tension are perhaps led to a more serious incident. Certainly the 15 were right to allow themselves to be captured, starting a shooting match would have been far worse. In genera the way we went about getting them back seemed to be about right, perhaps we culd have done it a bit better, but we could certainly have done it a lot worse and ddn't. The only bit that did go badly wrong was the selling stories bit, and they did react reasonably quickly. That bit seemed to be descision making on the hoof, something that is very prne to cock ups and smacks of political interferance at critical points, though as ever one could be wrong.

    Now this is not the first cock up in the history of the RN, it will not be the last. The RN will learn, and if any one in uniform is to blame I suspect their card is already marked and further public humiliation will achieve little more. If on the other hand the blaim lies within the political system then we need all the humiliation possible to have any impact at all.

    I think that in the grand scheme of things the whole thing was a very minor incident unlike for example the Yangste Incident and will be forgotten by most by the time Mr Broon moves house.

    Always remeber it is usually best to do ones dirty washing in the privacy of ones own home.
     
  13. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Things is, most of the cock ups in the past have resulted in some sort of sacking round or were unavoidable cock ups. This has been neither. The apparent complacency of the protective shield around the boarding party has been called into question, and one question for which I have yet to see a credible public explanation. The hostage taking was as good as it could have been, but the aftermath was an exercise in wholesale incompetence and mismanagement, as has been the gruesome fallout regarding Batchelor and Turney. Someone is responsible for this. They are abviously still being paid by the government, yet if they were head of HR or Media liaison for a large private company, they would be sat at home right now scanning the Guardian jobs pages. All very well Uncle Johnny firing off another hearts and minds signal - somewhere down here on shit street we'd like to know that when we **** up it's nines, when the grown ups **** up it's a P45. What measure of equality is there now?

    I agree with Bergen. The six o'clock shield is set to max. Once again, as in Pay 2000, the OM fiasco and countless other blunt end schemes, someone is sat fat dumb and happy, coated in Teflon.

    Levers
     
  14. If I remeber correctly you are still in the mob levers, I have been in industry for many years now and the guilty party is as likely to be promoted as fired out here. THose who fall on their swords do so because the rewards are high. In the world of the rolling three year contract the sack is often a good thing, as you will get another job long before you have spent the golden goodbye.
     
  15. Am I the only one who thinks that when Bandy says, "I as 1SL will take ultimate responsibility", he's really saying, "I am coming for all you clowns that have made the major **** ups in all of this. From the senior officers involved in the task group, to 2SL with that shite decision in allowing the muppets to sell their pitiful stories".

    Surely now, the 1SL cannot argue about the state of the service after so much lowering of standards?
     
  16. One must remember he works for a government where the controll of communication with the tax paying and voting public is very carefuly controlled, so is this him speeking or Mr Browne speeking through him. Does this mean he will fgall on his sword, or does it mean I will take the flack for Mr Browne but he (Ihope) will see me OK. I think though one can be certain that where sh*t can be flowed down it will, cards will be marked, carreers affected etc though I suspect both the RN and Mr Browne will prefer to avoid a public blood letting if possible.
     
  17. i can understand to a certain level why people feel so strongly against this and what was allowed to happen. but does really suprize me though is why were these blokes and girl names dragged though on here and some of the papers yet a 2 and a half is allowed to serialise his book in the daily mail a few weeks ago and he is still serving and actually received a major boost to the sales of his book. why is he allowed to do this without and backlash or slating?????
     

  18. My dear boy, he's an ossifer of course! 8O
     
  19. Since I can't bring myself to read the DM, anything more on that?

    The only book I can think of recently written by an SO2 was about Islam.
     

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