Some advice for candidates (PMU and security)

Hi all.

I've had an application open for around 2 years now. The application has been closed with no ability to appeal.
Bit of a waste of 2 years waiting for that.

I'll be scarce on the details for PERSEC but I feel this might be useful for those wanting to join.

Some time in early 2021, new directives were given to the recruitment staff from the MOD - this pretty much covers the army and RAF requirement too;
Any candidate which have any connection to "geopolitically hostile nations" are going to seriously struggle with getting a security clearance.

Putting it bluntly; if you have a parent, or a grandparent, or a S/O who fits into that category then you risk having your application summarily dismissed with no appeal.

There isn't a list for those countries, but let's just say those countries speak Russian, Chinese, Persian, and Arabic.
So if that applies to you, things are going to get a lot lot harder.

If you have a medical appeal open, expect to wait a very long time (6-18+ months).
Expect to have your appeal denied unless you are applying for an in demand role i.e. Engineer.
Chances are they won't even look at your evidence to appeal. It'll be summarily dismissed.

Your times may vary, especially as COVID winds down.
I have been informed by my recruiter that I'm the only candidate who has waited it out this long.
 

Drakey

War Hero
To support @Shark Crawler claims, he is correct. PMU/TMU cannot be appealed if it is not a shortage category that you are applying for.

Visa requirements have been changed by the Home Office which affects the eligibility of candidates applying from certain overseas countries
 
Really, and where is your proof of this?
I'll address this with the attachment. It's sanitized for my protection.
It's just a generic response. They didn't even look at the medical correspondence I sent in, which would have proven I'm fit to serve.

Wow - colour me surprised.

If you speak one of those languages fluently you could try going for CT.
PMU is PMU unfortunately, and due to new security directives candidates might find it exceedingly difficult to get a security clearance.

To support @Shark Crawler claims, he is correct. PMU/TMU cannot be appealed if it is not a shortage category that you are applying for.

Visa requirements have been changed by the Home Office which affects the eligibility of candidates applying from certain overseas countries
Not even just overseas countries. This covers British citizens living in country, living in overseas territories ect. applying and joining.

>

There isn't much point for someone unable to serve their country's navy (or any of it's branches) to stick around on a military forum for long.

If anyone has any questions or comments, I'd be glad to answer them.
 

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Drakey

War Hero
@Shark Crawler. The PMU/TMU and Visa requirements are two separate issues and have no relevance or bearing on each other.

If you fulfil the Visa requirements and are made PMU/TMU for an over subscribed branch you have no opportunity to appeal.

If you do not fulfil the Visa requirements - which have changed recently - you wont even get that far to be made PMU/TMU.
 
@Drakey I understand they're separate.

The new directives I mentioned hit candidates who do fulfil the visa requirements.
I do fulfil those requirements - if it wasn't clear, I would be considered eligible to serve.

Even if my PMU/TMU appeal went through successfully (or if I wasn't PMU/TMU at all), I was informed by my recruiter that due to the new directives I could have my application summarily dismissed.

It may sound a bit bigoted or even racist, but I understand their concerns of "loyalty" and "leverage" should conflict kick off.

>

I'll give a hypothetical;
Let's say your grandparents weren't born/raised in this country. That's a problem.
Let's say your parents weren't born/raised in this country. That's a bigger problem.
Let's say your SO comes from one of those "geopolitically spicy countries". Your application could end here.

Those are fairly obvious.
Let's say your uncle is doing some ex-pat overseas job in above mentioned country. Another problem.
Or maybe your SO has a grandma in their native country. Again a problem.

Or you were not born in England. Maybe you immigrated here as a baby or child. Unfortunately your ethnicity/race plays a part. It's a problem.

Something you have no control over can essentially shut your application down because someone believes you are not loyal beyond reasonable doubt to the Queen.

Doesn't matter if you held your visa for 1 year or 20 years, or whichever oath you swore to become a citizen.
 
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Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
The evidence posted simply states that you applied for branch is over-subscribed, so it makes sense that if you have a medical condition that is potential bar for entry, easier to decline than spend time on a maybe when there are plenty of yesses already in progress. It states nothing about security concerns, country of origin or background.

I completely refute what is being suggested here - that a British citizen is being actively prejudiced against because of their skin colour / religion / family tree.

That you may have failed to progress is NOT an indicator that others cannot or need not apply. Total nonsense.
 

Drakey

War Hero
The evidence posted simply states that you applied for branch is over-subscribed, so it makes sense that if you have a medical condition that is potential bar for entry, easier to decline than spend time on a maybe when there are plenty of yesses already in progress. It states nothing about security concerns, country of origin or background.

I completely refute what is being suggested here - that a British citizen is being actively prejudiced against because of their skin colour / religion / family tree.

That you may have failed to progress is NOT an indicator that others cannot or need not apply. Total nonsense.
Agree
 
So where do you fit / not fit in to all of the above.
I'm a British Citizen of over 5+ years who has held right to remain indefinite for over 10 years. I've lived here for over 15 years.

I was born in a "geopolitically hostile" country and moved over as a child.
I currently have one or more relatives in those countries.


The evidence posted simply states that you applied for branch is over-subscribed, so it makes sense that if you have a medical condition that is potential bar for entry, easier to decline than spend time on a maybe when there are plenty of yesses already in progress. It states nothing about security concerns, country of origin or background.

I completely refute what is being suggested here - that a British citizen is being actively prejudiced against because of their skin colour / religion / family tree.

That you may have failed to progress is NOT an indicator that others cannot or need not apply. Total nonsense.
I agree with your refutation of active prejudice - there isn't some swastika white robe clad mook binning all of the non-white applications.

With that being said, the new directives which I've spoken to recruitment staff several times about indicate there is a passive barrier which essentially puts candidates in a catch 22.
Whilst they have equal opportunity to apply and join and go through the process, the security/background check team won't share the same sentiment.

They can make it through everything, and suddenly hit the security wall.

I've spoken about the medical condition extensively with my recruiter, who has stated that regardless of the medical condition the security checks will cripple my ability to join down the road.

This isn't made to discourage anyone. I stuck it out 2 years and did plenty of preparation, however I found little information on my case.
It's purely reality and to share my experience of the recent recruitment process, and will not reflect everyone's experience.
 
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Civvie dad

Badgeman
I can only speak of my sons experience, not a problem with security clearance, he was born in Ireland , holds a Irish passport his mother is Irish and if they went back far enough I’m sure there would be something that would be highlighted as with all Irish families most were split into sides when the boarder was formed , so I agree with above, that people shouldn’t be put off by the thought of having issues due to where they were born , I know Ireland isn’t the same now as it was through previous decades but it’s still a bit of a hot potato
 
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