Shrinking Navy

tommo

War Hero
I know it was a bollocks system when they came up with it. We were almost down on crew by 50% on the anglesey and topmast was in place at the time as well
 
DancesWithJPA said:
Topmast not working?! Say it ain't so. The fit and willing go to sea, the lazy and unwilling don't. Whoda thought it?
Of course Topmast is working - that's why they've just started a new study to look at manning the RN. ^~
 

DancesWithJPA

Lantern Swinger
I got the original concept of drafting 120% to the billets, wheras you used to draft 100% of fit folk to the billets and you take the hard and soft gaps. Okay so far... Then we find that from that 120% you're including the RN's mad, bad and sad, and sweet jaysus there's thousands of them...
 

fearless

Newbie
Although we can't know how much truth there is in this rumour, I suspect it's well based.

The RN is clearly being squeezed to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The new CVs, and the replacement for Trident, will be costly programmes, and can we REALLY believe that the Government will pay for these without cutting elsewhere?

I think it's time that we reviewed the whole question of whether the UK is a maritime or a land power, since we can't realistically expect to afford both. The answer seems to me obvious. Confronted with Iraq, how much better if we could say: "We'd like to help. We're a maritime power. Can't offer you troops, but how many ships would you like?"

One other thought concerns the rumoured new cuts to the MCMV fleet. A big chunk (about 15%) of the world's oil supplies flow through the Straits of Hormuz. This is just one of many critical choke-points that could be blocked cheaply and effectively using mines. Whilst new carriers are much needed, as are the T45s and the Astutes, ALL trade-dependent nations should maintain a strong MCMV capability.

The same goes for Frigates, of which we already have too few.
 

safewalrus

War Hero
Seem the usual thing - "lets 'leak' the story that we are going to reduce the fleet drastically then we can say that's rubbish and only cut a small part and everybody will be so relieved they'll let us get away with only giving them one carrier etc"

Who the hell can predict what the scenario will be like in five years let alone twenty! According to the 'Sun' Brown will have given us all away to Poland by then anyway (oh! he has already! even the Lithuainians are going back home - it's better there now than here!)
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
TattooDog said:
DancesWithJPA said:
Topmast not working?! Say it ain't so. The fit and willing go to sea, the lazy and unwilling don't. Whoda thought it?
Of course Topmast is working - that's why they've just started a new study to look at manning the RN. ^~
New? Surely you've heard of Project Fisher, it's "the logical next step on the path trodden by Topmast" This Months Navy News article

Management tip #137: If one efficiency initiative fails under no circumstances admit it, proclaim its success and "develop" its philosophy. It is often beneficial to return to the initiative which was in place before the previous change, staff will have become so disillusioned by now that few if any who remember this initiative will remain within the organisation. :thumright:
 

FLOODQ

MIA
If its true I'm afraid after 30 plus years service I'm off to Spain to live!

An island nation without a navy - hopeless!
 
I spent a good few months in Glasgow Urnu and it would be a great dissapointment if Hms Smiter was lost. The urnu provides fantastic training oppurtunities and made me a lot of great new friends.
 
chieftiff said:
New? Surely you've heard of Project Fisher, it's "the logical next step on the path trodden by Topmast"
By "logical next step", I think they mean "oops, not quite working is it? Let's try something else". That's usually the next step after a SOPA has been tried. (SOPA = Senior Officer's Promotion Attempt)

Well, I'm sure it'll be good since they've got a snazzy website on FleetWeb! :crazy:
 

Applicant

Newbie
Potential_Officer said:
Will there be a Navy for me to join?
I wonder about this too. I believe there will be cuts, but probably not to the extent of decommissioning 5 frigates and/or destroyers. The government has said it will proceed with the 2 x CVFs (and I believe they want to expand the Royal Marines too), and the money for these commitments will have to come from somewhere. Who wants to bet that funds will be cut back from the black hole that is public health expenditure? Or the police? Not me.
However, I think it's fair to expect a change in defense staffing - I believe it's likely that there will be more public-private partnerships, and some functions will go over to the civil service MoD.

If I had to make the decision to cut anything back, it would be with great reluctance but I think the RNR would have to be first (on the basis of frequency of call-up/deployment). Doesn't make any sense to decommission the very expensive Type 42s, 45s, etc.
 

Rocket_Ron

Lantern Swinger
Applicant said:
However, I think it's fair to expect a change in defense staffing - I believe it's likely that there will be more public-private partnerships, and some functions will go over to the civil service MoD.
You could well be right young man. But i hope to god your wrong. The MOD are the biggest threat to the services there is,and public-private finance is just leaving a huge debt legacy for 15/20/25 yrs time.
 

philc

Midshipman
I read this article with unease, whilst not being up to date of how the RN operates today one thought occurs to me. Whats the point of having two shinny new aircraft carriers if you don't have the necessary ships around to protect them.

I can only assume that the long term thinking is the joint EU armed force and if it is necessary to use the aircraft carriers in a war situation, protection would be offered by other EU vessels, German frigates, French subs or what ever the requirement would be at the time. All very nice on paper but would the EU rush to reclaim the Falklands again in 2020 when the Argies decided to have another crack at the place.
 

stumpy

War Hero
And given that most of the European Nato countries (standfast Denmark etc) are failing to pull their weight in Afghanistan (some only patrolling in daylight ffs!) then can we trust them to defend our CVF's in war??

Time to wake up.
 

P2000

Lantern Swinger
Not quite sure that everything in the article is true- there may be an element of MOD "leaking" something to head off a cut in the CSR: Whitehall is always very jumpy at this time, and the ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top...

If it is true, however, stand by for some fairly senior 'early retirements'. 1SL's been pretty robust (or as robust as he can be in public) about the risk that further cuts will take the Navy below critical mass.

An island nation, dependent on the seas for 95% of the goods we use in every day life, and we're thinking of cutting the fleet to the bone. Jesus wept.
 

OSLO

War Hero
P2000 said:
Not quite sure that everything in the article is true- there may be an element of MOD "leaking" something to head off a cut in the CSR: Whitehall is always very jumpy at this time, and the ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top...

If it is true, however, stand by for some fairly senior 'early retirements'. 1SL's been pretty robust (or as robust as he can be in public) about the risk that further cuts will take the Navy below critical mass.

An island nation, dependent on the seas for 95% of the goods we use in every day life, and we're thinking of cutting the fleet to the bone. Jesus wept.
That's what comes from not having a single member of the Cabinet who ever served in uniform, much less a dark blue one. Add to that the anti-RN sentiment that Brown left in the Treasury, and you have a drive to cut the RN back. But with a population who seemingly don't even care when we're fighting a bloody war (literal, not metaphorical), what is the Government to do? The electorate was dumb enough to vote them in at the last election. Let's see what the next test at the Polls shows us.
 

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