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Should we relax the current drug laws

As for Prison being no help, if the prisons are properly run, regular screening for substance abuse on the inmates & Staff, this would be the perfect place for them to get the treatment to help them come off the bloody stuff

No it wouldn't. It'd be a shit place for them to get treatment, and massively expensive. We can see this because countries that have stopped sending their drug addicts to prison and instead treat them are having significant success. We're not advocating some crazy experimental society. Better options are being demonstrated to us every ******* day by countries that have abandoned the ridiculous, arbitrary "war on drugs" and are actually trying to make a better society.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
I think the main issue would have to be trying to get multi-nation agreement to decriminalise drugs rather than create drugs tourism as seen in countries with a more liberal tolerance of recreational drugs users.
 

Lord Labrador

Midshipman
Here's something to think about. I piped up in defence of drugs but I think it would be only fair to say that even if they were legalised a lot of employers including, I'm sure, the armed forces, would maintain a zero tolerance policy. Even if you think it's your right to do what you like with your own body, consider what effect you may have on your own future. I doubt the Navy is going to let in people who are known to be off their heads on drugs half the time. That is the reason I have always stayed clear. Actions have consequences, even if they're not the consequences you are told about.
 

danny

War Hero
Here's something to think about. I piped up in defence of drugs but I think it would be only fair to say that even if they were legalised a lot of employers including, I'm sure, the armed forces, would maintain a zero tolerance policy. Even if you think it's your right to do what you like with your own body, consider what effect you may have on your own future. I doubt the Navy is going to let in people who are known to be off their heads on drugs half the time. That is the reason I have always stayed clear. Actions have consequences, even if they're not the consequences you are told about.

But that is simple common sense, in much the same way if you turn up to work bladderd you won't be in a job much longer.
 

Lord Labrador

Midshipman
But that is simple common sense, in much the same way if you turn up to work bladderd you won't be in a job much longer.

Yeah fair point, but drug use can affect you employment wise years into the future and I think it's something a lot of people just don't think about.
 

danny

War Hero
Yeah fair point, but drug use can affect you employment wise years into the future and I think it's something a lot of people just don't think about.

It can if people are criminalised for it. Which I swhy I think the ideas shared on this forum for stricter sentences Would only have a negative effecton society
 

Lord Labrador

Midshipman
It can if people are criminalised for it. Which I swhy I think the ideas shared on this forum for stricter sentences Would only have a negative effecton society

Well I think that employers, even if drugs were to be decriminalised, would maintain zero tolerance policies in the same way that some jobs require workers to be dry or free from certain prescription meds. I'm not arguing against decriminalisation, what I am saying is that people need to be careful and think their actions through. That's the main reason I stay off drugs, because I don't want to sacrifice my future because of an ill thought through decision.
 
G

guestm

Guest
It might be a simplistic view, but please tell me where it is wrong.

As for the back story, I am afraid that does not really wash with me, oh dear me I am Depressed/jobless/homeless/bored I know I will try some drugs, that will make everything better!!! As I said, their choice and with the current level of information available on the pitfalls of drug use, there is no excuse!

As for Prison being no help, if the prisons are properly run, regular screening for substance abuse on the inmates & Staff, this would be the perfect place for them to get the treatment to help them come off the bloody stuff

'Many of them are veterans. Do you feel the same toward them as you would a guy who has never found gainful employment?'

that would depend, Afghan vets suffering PTSD, yes I would feel differently, anything else, I would feel the same as if they had been kicked out of training for getting caught with drugs!

So you feel differently about vets with PTSD but not for anyone who may have had an even more traumatic upbringing or experience in civvy life?

People go through worse things than having a few rounds lobbed at them all the time, every day. Just because they don't wear a uniform doesn't mean they should be exempt from help.
 

dogbreath

Newbie
Very good point. As someone who's undecided on legalisation, but sympathetic towards the idea, I hadn't thought of what would probably happen when 'purity' standards kicked in.

One solution might be price controls to run in tandem with purity standards. But I suppose that this would be unthinkable as we can't interfere with 'market forces' - even when it comes to actual necessities like fuel.
 

danny

War Hero
Very good point. As someone who's undecided on legalisation, but sympathetic towards the idea, I hadn't thought of what would probably happen when 'purity' standards kicked in.

One solution might be price controls to run in tandem with purity standards. But I suppose that this would be unthinkable as we can't interfere with 'market forces' - even when it comes to actual necessities like fuel.

I imagine that could be legislated against. Decide on a unit of measure and then apply a minimum price per unit of whatever substance.
 

mikh

MIA
So you feel differently about vets with PTSD but not for anyone who may have had an even more traumatic upbringing or experience in civvy life?

People go through worse things than having a few rounds lobbed at them all the time, every day. Just because they don't wear a uniform doesn't mean they should be exempt from help.

I was onto a no winner no matter which way I had answered that one Monty and you know it! But at no point have I said that addicts should not get help, in fact I said ' no expense should be spared' to help those who want to get off the stuff, but that is the elephant in the corner isn't it, THEY need to 1) want to come off drugs. 2) Ask for help. Because with out 1) there is no way on gods green earth are they ever going to be sober, you cannot force an addict to become clean.

As for work, I cannot see the likes of Sellafield suspending it Zero tolerance to drugs use! Throw in the fact that someone under the influence of Alcohol can be much easier to spot than someone who has snorted a line of coke, or you can have a flashback LSD trip quite some time after taking the stuff, or the very simple fact, it is easier to sneak a pill/little plastic bag into work that it is a bottle of Whisky

Again, I ask the question, how many of the advocates for decriminalisation on this forum have kids?
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
As for work, I cannot see the likes of Sellafield suspending it Zero tolerance to drugs use! Throw in the fact that someone under the influence of Alcohol can be much easier to spot than someone who has snorted a line of coke, or you can have a flashback LSD trip quite some time after taking the stuff, or the very simple fact, it is easier to sneak a pill/little plastic bag into work that it is a bottle of Whisky

Again, I ask the question, how many of the advocates for decriminalisation on this forum have kids?
I have kids.

For the n'th time no-one is advocating the acceptance of drugs use in jobs that expressly forbid it. Alcohol is legal but we still prosecute people who drive whilst drunk, handle weapons when drunk, go on watch when drunk, commit crimes when drunk.

The discussion is about the decriminalisation of recreational drugs in society, not about exonerating people who commit crimes or who are under the influence. The services or similar would still have an outright bar to drugs & still conduct CDT.

If you like, I'll type slowly & use a bigger font, if that would help.
 

danny

War Hero
I was onto a no winner no matter which way I had answered that one Monty and you know it! But at no point have I said that addicts should not get help, in fact I said ' no expense should be spared' to help those who want to get off the stuff, but that is the elephant in the corner isn't it, THEY need to 1) want to come off drugs. 2) Ask for help. Because with out 1) there is no way on gods green earth are they ever going to be sober, you cannot force an addict to become clean.

As for work, I cannot see the likes of Sellafield suspending it Zero tolerance to drugs use! Throw in the fact that someone under the influence of Alcohol can be much easier to spot than someone who has snorted a line of coke, or you can have a flashback LSD trip quite some time after taking the stuff, or the very simple fact, it is easier to sneak a pill/little plastic bag into work that it is a bottle of Whisky

Again, I ask the question, how many of the advocates for decriminalisation on this forum have kids?

The whole LSD flashback thing is pretty much a load of shit. Yes they do exist but they are extremely rare, they have been pushed out by the anti drugs campaign to scare people. If you are worried about people being unhinged all jobs should be done by robots as anyone can have a mental issue.
People who have been taking drugs are pretty obvious to spot. But as most people believe they rarely come in to contact with drug users they are not sue what to look for.
 

Lord Labrador

Midshipman
I think we can safely assume that any decriminalisation would result in some pretty thorough safeguards being put in place
 

mikh

MIA
OK Ninja, Drugs get decriminalised, how would you feel about your kids smoking weed, popping pills on a night out?

As for the thread, the way I understand part of what has been posted by some on here, is that addicts who commit crimes to feed their habit should not be treat as criminals but as victims!!!

As for the work thing, there are already people who go to work under the influence of drugs, who pop a pill at work, snort a line at lunch time, just think what it might lead to if they are decriminalised? How many are kicked out of the Armed Forces for substance misuse, and they are probably amongst the best educated workforce in the UK when it comes to use and consequences of drugs misuse.

What I really find strange is that a goodly number who condemn smoking and drinking are advocating decriminalisation of drugs!
 
G

guestm

Guest
OK Ninja, Drugs get decriminalised, how would you feel about your kids smoking weed, popping pills on a night out?

I think if anyone truly believes their kids won't do it at least once they're naive. Whether you like it or not. It's nothing new, it's been going on for five decades.
 

danny

War Hero
OK Ninja, Drugs get decriminalised, how would you feel about your kids smoking weed, popping pills on a night out?

As for the thread, the way I understand part of what has been posted by some on here, is that addicts who commit crimes to feed their habit should not be treat as criminals but as victims!!!

As for the work thing, there are already people who go to work under the influence of drugs, who pop a pill at work, snort a line at lunch time, just think what it might lead to if they are decriminalised? How many are kicked out of the Armed Forces for substance misuse, and they are probably amongst the best educated workforce in the UK when it comes to use and consequences of drugs misuse.

What I really find strange is that a goodly number who condemn smoking and drinking are advocating decriminalisation of drugs!

Mikh drug use by teenagers is common place on nights out. If you have grandkids or children of that age now and you think there's no way on hell they either aren't doing it or would never do it without knowing the kids personally your probably naive.
My parents had no idea what we were up to at 19 but I'm sure they didn't suspect we were doin what we actually were. It's almost a right of passage in this age.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
As for the thread, the way I understand part of what has been posted by some on here, is that addicts who commit crimes to feed their habit should not be treat as criminals but as victims!!!

That's the bit I have trouble with, if a junkie commits a crime to feed his habit, do you still put him/her over the wall for the crime, say mugging someone for arguments sake.

Or do you send him/her on a rehab course assuming they want to go! What's to prevent all criminals say it wasn't their fault they committed a crime, they were trying to feed their habit or were off their face on drugs and so try to get off a custodial sentence! They've still committed a crime..end of.

Maybe a secure unit drug rehab run jointly by the NHS and Prison service would have to be considered.
 
As for the thread, the way I understand part of what has been posted by some on here, is that addicts who commit crimes to feed their habit should not be treat as criminals but as victims!!!

Nobody is advocating that. What people are saying is that the taking of drugs should not in itself be a criminal act. Other crimes remain crimes.

The closest anyone had to that was "w. anchor", saying that it was pointless to send someone to prison for a "drug related crime", but the rest of his post, about how easy it is to get drugs in prison, made it clear that he means sending people to prison won't stop them committing the crime of having and taking drugs.

On a personal note, I think a great many crimes that currently carry a custodial sentence should not (because I think the judicial system should try to improve society rather than indulge the general public's thirst for revenge, and a great many imprisonments seem to be massively expensive and horrifically low in effect), but that's a different discussion.
 
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Rachelthree

War Hero
To be fair, going to prison for drug related crimes can fast track you to rehab- don't commit a crime and you can literally wait for years. None of them should be legalised, but more should be invested in supporting people- i dont believe that people caught with them deserve to go to prison necessarily (and many dont); but its too dangerous to have them acceptable in mainstream society.
 
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