Should repeated RNFT failures be dis-rated?

[Sea_Dodger]

Has it happened yet? I know it is close for some people to be dis-rated who, in the 5 years of RNFT, have never passed their fitness test.
Should they be dis-rated for not be able to pass a bleep test or 1.5 mile run or should there fitness be assessed in another way. (Swimming, bike etc..)
During my last RNFT (of which I was one of the oldest) I was the only one who passed out of a cast of 12 people. Shocking!
For the older generations the horse has bolted so there is no point locking the gate, however how do we inspire the younger generation to get and remain fit? Would the re-introduction of the Field Gun (not brickwoods) help? And if they can't pass the RNFT after repeated attempts should they be made SNLR. Harsh, but we are supposed to be a fighting force.

 

[PompeySailor]

Yes they have been disrated and yes they will be in future - it will be part of a bigger drive in the near future to ensure that everyone is in date for the RNFT, and those that aren't will be placed on a structured and end-dated remedial programme. For those that are selected (but not yet promoted) - If they cannot pass the RNFT, and have nothing medically wrong, then they will be removed from the promotion selection for that year. Those that hold the rate are being monitored closely....

 

[finknottle]

Bring back compulsory PT that way Clubs can earn his pay as well as sorting out the fat knackers.

 

[PompeySailor]

Not sure why we ever got rid of it. Working with the Army, they have a more healthy attitude towards PT. Always amusing to see the RN try and pull out of CFTs and BFTs claiming it doesn't apply to them! Then again, if we ensured that Wednesday M&Ms were more constructive than darts in the Ship Anson, we might stand more chance!

 

[jumpertucker]

It drives me mad that the same portly chaps can be promoted whilst us P2 ratings flog our guts out, they should at the very least have their pay level increases stopped. They continue to get pay increases and the "X-factor" what-ever the hell that is anymore, despite not being fit to go to sea.
1. give the DO's a kick ***********
2. stop the pay level increase
3. get rid of the "special" command courses :twisted:

 

[PompeySailor]

1. The DOs should not need a kick *********** - they get notification of all personnel in their division who are requiring an RNFT, and the PTIs give them a chit which tells them who needs remedial PT. The DOs should be on top of this (or passing it to DepCos, DSRs, whatever).
2. Coming soon!
3. Unfortunately, if the RN knackers them, the RN cannot pass them over. Granted, some on the Special Courses are little more than slackers who use injury as an excuse, but don't forget that P2L3 is an exemption from Command Course, NOT RNFT. The P2Z is the RNFT exemption, for which they need to go to a Board of Survey. It is rumoured that some DOs do not know the difference and are "persuaded" that P2L3 is an RNFT exemption!

There are many who are not P2 but still go to sea, sometimes you don't even know who the non-P2 ones are!

Removal of X-Factor won't happen because this was the argument put forward when non-seagoing Wrens (as they were) suddenly joined the rest of us on the normal pay scales - it was too "cost-intensive" to run separate pay scales for land-going personnel only, so the non seagoers get the same rate of pay with half the commitment. Not fair, I know!

 

[Fighting_Sailor]

The answer could be pretty straight forward. The day you fail or go out of date for RNFT your seniority is frozen. It restarts once you pass. 3months without an in-date RNFT, 3-months loss of seniority - easy. Those with specific and extraodinary reasons should be put forward, by their CO, to one of 2SL's 1*s for an exemption.

This would deal with pay and promotion issues ina 1er and genuinely motivate people to get it done. As an example we had a WREN S/Lt on course who was promoted to Lt on seniority even though she failed RNFT a couple of months previously. Eventually she passed RNFT some months after promotion. My suggestion would have motivated her to pass it before her promotion or it wouldn't have happened.

Thoughts :?:

 

[PompeySailor]

Good idea. Next time 2SLs presentation team comes your way, put it forward. We don't really have a system in place for suggestions like this, unless they are complaints or representations, but if you are confident enough and willing to back up the proposal, then there is nothing stopping you writing to someone like 2SL straight away!

The seniority stopper is a good move, but the legalese would have to be rock solid to avoid those that are medically downgraded (ie see above for those that are P2L3(chubby). Putting a block on Pay Increments would also work.

The SLT should not have been promoted without being in date for RNFT - one of the prerequisites is that she is fully fit for promotion, which she clearly was not. It happens......

 

[avoiding_action]

A lack of divisional oversight must be addressed. A persistant RNFT failure and LRCC shurker found himself on DO's warning once he joined my division. A lot of paperwork and nause, but guess what! His pay's been frozen (AIP) and he's staring down the barrel of HOD's warning.
He's now regularly training and has a whole new outlook at 'phys'. He won't come of warning until he's passed LRCC! But that won't be long.
The system works, if the lazy DO's will get off their arses and lead! Well it does for the ratings anyway.

 

[Sea_Dodger]

I totally agree, the only thing that will generally motivate people who can't motivate themselves is money and that is linked with promotion.
But where does it stop? How long can somebody go without passing a fitness test, 5, 10, 15 years or maybe be 3 strikes and your out.
DO's have been slow on the uptake in regards of fitness failures and in the mean time our newest members are falling below the fitness curve.
I don't feel we have the right incentives in place at the moment or that examples have been made of those who are a little gym shy.

What's the cure?

 

[finknottle]

Ye Gods, Is the Andrew no longer a disciplined service or is it politically incorrect to sort out some fat twat who would struggle to get through a hatch or get him/herself up 6 decks at the double?

 

[the_matelot]

Until the differences in pass standards for males and females are sorted out, I think not much can be done. The different pass standards from a legal perspective amounts to positive discrimination. Lawyers would have a fecking field-day over that one.....

And another thing (hic), why not a different type of RNFT? Running is all very well, but surely controlling a charged hose, carrying an oppo from a compartment, carrying extinguishers up a ladder is more relevant to our line of work. Oh, hang on, 80% of females would fail it straight away.......

 

[QARNN01]

Until the differences in pass standards for males and females are sorted out, I think not much can be done. The different pass standards from a legal perspective amounts to positive discrimination. Lawyers would have a fecking field-day over that one.....

And another thing (hic), why not a different type of RNFT? Running is all very well, but surely controlling a charged hose, carrying an oppo from a compartment, carrying extinguishers up a ladder is more relevant to our line of work. Oh, hang on, 80% of females would fail it straight away.......

Oh you're so funny.... actually some of us girls can do quite a lot that the blokes seem to find difficult.... went through Raleigh with quite a lot of useless blokes who couldn't even step over the gap on the high wall on the obstacle course. Am not even going to mention the ones who sank rather than swam their length and a half.....
To get back to the point - people joining the armed forces should be fit. If you're not, then bugger off and stop whingeing about it being unfair to base your whole career on your run (as a nurse I know has done a lot recently)... you're not fit, you can't fight (or at least run away!!!).

 

[Shakey]

And another thing (hic), why not a different type of RNFT? Running is all very well, but surely controlling a charged hose, carrying an oppo from a compartment, carrying extinguishers up a ladder is more relevant to our line of work. Oh, hang on, 80% of females would fail it straight away.......

As I understand it, the RNFT is gender fair. That's why they have the different times for the mile and half.

There was some wok done on devising a gender free test, based on damage control type scenarios as you suggest. Unfortunately, the females tended to fail it and as the ships are already manned with females you can see what would happen if they had to remove crew who failed that test.

Work on a gender free test is now on hold I believe.

 

[Lingyai]

Until the differences in pass standards for males and females are sorted out, I think not much can be done. The different pass standards from a legal perspective amounts to positive discrimination. Lawyers would have a fecking field-day over that one.....

And another thing (hic), why not a different type of RNFT? Running is all very well, but surely controlling a charged hose, carrying an oppo from a compartment, carrying extinguishers up a ladder is more relevant to our line of work. Oh, hang on, 80% of females would fail it straight away.......

Sense at last, since when has running been an accurate measure of fitness..... never. But doing more practical tasks like shifting a submersible pump or something similar would be much more relevant.
Bet you a days pay that if a new test was introduced it would not be equal for bouys and gulls...

 

[Jenny_Dabber]

Do they still give you the option of doing the 1.5 mile run or the bleep test?

 

[janner]

Do they still give you the option of doing the 1.5 mile run or the bleep test?

Course before Britains New Navy (as the ads used to say) came along there was no such thing a fat Matelot, mostly due to the poor scran, Submariners in the DE days had an added slimming aid, diesel with everything. Discusting taste but kept the weight down :lol:

 

[fish-head]

Do they still give you the option of doing the 1.5 mile run or the bleep test?

Yes JD, assuming you have both available.

 

[fish-head]

And another thing (hic), why not a different type of RNFT? Running is all very well, but surely controlling a charged hose, carrying an oppo from a compartment, carrying extinguishers up a ladder is more relevant to our line of work. Oh, hang on, 80% of females would fail it straight away.......

As I understand it, the RNFT is gender fair. That's why they have the different times for the mile and half.

There was some wok done on devising a gender free test, based on damage control type scenarios as you suggest. Unfortunately, the females tended to fail it and as the ships are already manned with females you can see what would happen if they had to remove crew who failed that test.

Work on a gender free test is now on hold I believe.

I remember doing the fitness test in basic training, now I was a lot fitter and an awful lot lighter then and topped out at 50 odd press ups. Not a bad effort thinks the young FH, till he hears of a fat burd with HUGE tits getting to 80 or so. There was no way she was capable of that, having failed her run several times, but her girly press ups seemed just a little easier than your blokes ones.

 

[bongo_jeffrey]

Absolutely!

Dis-rate them, then give them six months to get their $hit in one sock. As it stands, you need to give people so many warnings, and establish such a big audit trail, that failures often creep under the radar when moving between units. At the end of the day, the Navy is a fighting arm, albeit not in the same vein as the combat arms of the Army.

The sanctions for failing an RNFT are also laughable - one line in a RORRS or OJAR! This whole business of people not being striped up due to failure of an RNFT is very selectively applied. On one hand, I've seen killicks lose acting rates due to failure, on the other, a girl from my era at BRNC (99-00) who has never passed a RNFT has not been denied a second stripe!

Bottom line- if you can't drag your ar$e around a 2.4km course in less than the prescribed time once a year, you really have nobusiness being in the RN, or any other uniform service for that matter!

Final dit- equal standards for both male and female personnel. Same job, same pay- same standards! Out with drag ar$es!