Should repeated RNFT failures be dis-rated?

Sea_Dodger

Lantern Swinger
Has it happened yet? I know it is close for some people to be dis-rated who, in the 5 years of RNFT, have never passed their fitness test.
Should they be dis-rated for not be able to pass a bleep test or 1.5 mile run or should there fitness be assessed in another way. (Swimming, bike etc..)
During my last RNFT (of which I was one of the oldest) I was the only one who passed out of a cast of 12 people. Shocking!
For the older generations the horse has bolted so there is no point locking the gate, however how do we inspire the younger generation to get and remain fit? Would the re-introduction of the Field Gun (not brickwoods) help? And if they can't pass the RNFT after repeated attempts should they be made SNLR. Harsh, but we are supposed to be a fighting force.
 

PompeySailor

Lantern Swinger
Yes they have been disrated and yes they will be in future - it will be part of a bigger drive in the near future to ensure that everyone is in date for the RNFT, and those that aren't will be placed on a structured and end-dated remedial programme. For those that are selected (but not yet promoted) - If they cannot pass the RNFT, and have nothing medically wrong, then they will be removed from the promotion selection for that year. Those that hold the rate are being monitored closely....
 

PompeySailor

Lantern Swinger
Not sure why we ever got rid of it. Working with the Army, they have a more healthy attitude towards PT. Always amusing to see the RN try and pull out of CFTs and BFTs claiming it doesn't apply to them! Then again, if we ensured that Wednesday M&Ms were more constructive than darts in the Ship Anson, we might stand more chance!
 

jumpertucker

Midshipman
It drives me mad that the same portly chaps can be promoted whilst us P2 ratings flog our guts out, they should at the very least have their pay level increases stopped. They continue to get pay increases and the "X-factor" what-ever the hell that is anymore, despite not being fit to go to sea.
1. give the DO's a kick ***********
2. stop the pay level increase
3. get rid of the "special" command courses :twisted:
 

PompeySailor

Lantern Swinger
1. The DOs should not need a kick *********** - they get notification of all personnel in their division who are requiring an RNFT, and the PTIs give them a chit which tells them who needs remedial PT. The DOs should be on top of this (or passing it to DepCos, DSRs, whatever).
2. Coming soon!
3. Unfortunately, if the RN knackers them, the RN cannot pass them over. Granted, some on the Special Courses are little more than slackers who use injury as an excuse, but don't forget that P2L3 is an exemption from Command Course, NOT RNFT. The P2Z is the RNFT exemption, for which they need to go to a Board of Survey. It is rumoured that some DOs do not know the difference and are "persuaded" that P2L3 is an RNFT exemption!

There are many who are not P2 but still go to sea, sometimes you don't even know who the non-P2 ones are!

Removal of X-Factor won't happen because this was the argument put forward when non-seagoing Wrens (as they were) suddenly joined the rest of us on the normal pay scales - it was too "cost-intensive" to run separate pay scales for land-going personnel only, so the non seagoers get the same rate of pay with half the commitment. Not fair, I know!
 
The answer could be pretty straight forward. The day you fail or go out of date for RNFT your seniority is frozen. It restarts once you pass. 3months without an in-date RNFT, 3-months loss of seniority - easy. Those with specific and extraodinary reasons should be put forward, by their CO, to one of 2SL's 1*s for an exemption.

This would deal with pay and promotion issues ina 1er and genuinely motivate people to get it done. As an example we had a WREN S/Lt on course who was promoted to Lt on seniority even though she failed RNFT a couple of months previously. Eventually she passed RNFT some months after promotion. My suggestion would have motivated her to pass it before her promotion or it wouldn't have happened.

Thoughts :?:
 

PompeySailor

Lantern Swinger
Good idea. Next time 2SLs presentation team comes your way, put it forward. We don't really have a system in place for suggestions like this, unless they are complaints or representations, but if you are confident enough and willing to back up the proposal, then there is nothing stopping you writing to someone like 2SL straight away!

The seniority stopper is a good move, but the legalese would have to be rock solid to avoid those that are medically downgraded (ie see above for those that are P2L3(chubby). Putting a block on Pay Increments would also work.

The SLT should not have been promoted without being in date for RNFT - one of the prerequisites is that she is fully fit for promotion, which she clearly was not. It happens......
 

avoiding_action

Lantern Swinger
A lack of divisional oversight must be addressed. A persistant RNFT failure and LRCC shurker found himself on DO's warning once he joined my division. A lot of paperwork and nause, but guess what! His pay's been frozen (AIP) and he's staring down the barrel of HOD's warning.
He's now regularly training and has a whole new outlook at 'phys'. He won't come of warning until he's passed LRCC! But that won't be long.
The system works, if the lazy DO's will get off their arses and lead! Well it does for the ratings anyway.
 

Sea_Dodger

Lantern Swinger
I totally agree, the only thing that will generally motivate people who can't motivate themselves is money and that is linked with promotion.
But where does it stop? How long can somebody go without passing a fitness test, 5, 10, 15 years or maybe be 3 strikes and your out.
DO's have been slow on the uptake in regards of fitness failures and in the mean time our newest members are falling below the fitness curve.
I don't feel we have the right incentives in place at the moment or that examples have been made of those who are a little gym shy.

What's the cure?
 
Ye Gods, Is the Andrew no longer a disciplined service or is it politically incorrect to sort out some fat twat who would struggle to get through a hatch or get him/herself up 6 decks at the double?
 

the_matelot

War Hero
Moderator
Until the differences in pass standards for males and females are sorted out, I think not much can be done. The different pass standards from a legal perspective amounts to positive discrimination. Lawyers would have a fecking field-day over that one.....

And another thing (hic), why not a different type of RNFT? Running is all very well, but surely controlling a charged hose, carrying an oppo from a compartment, carrying extinguishers up a ladder is more relevant to our line of work. Oh, hang on, 80% of females would fail it straight away.......
 

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