Should a mother join the Navy?

dondon

MIA
rosinacarley said:
Nigaramus said:
higthepig said:
It may be worth remembering that it isn`t all that long ago that when a servicewoman became pregnant they had to leave, or am i too old?
And sued the mob for all they could get!!
Sorry - you can't chose which laws you abide by and which you do not. The MoD was in the wrong by requiring pregnant ladies to leave, ergo they had to make restitution. Are you telling Nig that if you were seriously injured by someone elses negligence you would not sue the arse off them?
I know of one WREN who got pregnant by her husband [wanted to leave the andrew anyway] , then when the lawsuits started bearing fruit she jumped on the bandwagon & was awarded £84,000 , kinell for getting pregnant by her husband , you couldnt make it up , that was a few years ago , 80s ,
 

silverfox

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
DD - I don't think them monies paid out were some sort of rape compensation - and most of the claimants were married at the time. The MOD got its fingers burned firstly by the legislation and then secondly in the way they dealt with it. I seem to remember that the industrial tribunal in Exeter was a favourite place to take the claims as they had a habit of awarding the biggest damages. Plenty of lessons identified there... slightly different from lessons learned though.
 

dondon

MIA
silverfox said:
DD - I don't think them monies paid out were some sort of rape compensation - and most of the claimants were married at the time. The MOD got its fingers burned firstly by the legislation and then secondly in the way they dealt with it. I seem to remember that the industrial tribunal in Exeter was a favourite place to take the claims as they had a habit of awarding the biggest damages. Plenty of lessons identified there... slightly different from lessons learned though.

I never mentioned rape , & it set the said lady up for a while , well sorted a mortgage free house , still it's only the taxpayer so what the fukc , how on earth can the RN be responsable for getting some one pregnant , [ head down waiting for the incoming ] , right off to bed , long week of nights ,
 
dondon said:
rosinacarley said:
Nigaramus said:
higthepig said:
It may be worth remembering that it isn`t all that long ago that when a servicewoman became pregnant they had to leave, or am i too old?
And sued the mob for all they could get!!
Sorry - you can't chose which laws you abide by and which you do not. The MoD was in the wrong by requiring pregnant ladies to leave, ergo they had to make restitution. Are you telling Nig that if you were seriously injured by someone elses negligence you would not sue the arse off them?
I know of one WREN who got pregnant by her husband [wanted to leave the andrew anyway] , then when the lawsuits started bearing fruit she jumped on the bandwagon & was awarded £84,000 , kinell for getting pregnant by her husband , you couldnt make it up , that was a few years ago , 80s ,
The point is not that she was pregnant by her husband, or that she wanted to leave the RN, but that the regs required her to leave. I say again you can't choose which laws you abide by.
 

silverfox

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
dondon said:
silverfox said:
DD - I don't think them monies paid out were some sort of rape compensation - and most of the claimants were married at the time. The MOD got its fingers burned firstly by the legislation and then secondly in the way they dealt with it. I seem to remember that the industrial tribunal in Exeter was a favourite place to take the claims as they had a habit of awarding the biggest damages. Plenty of lessons identified there... slightly different from lessons learned though.

I never mentioned rape , & it set the said lady up for a while , well sorted a mortgage free house , still it's only the taxpayer so what the fukc , how on earth can the RN be responsable for getting some one pregnant , [ head down waiting for the incoming ] , right off to bed , long week of nights ,
No need to duck - the pay out was not for being pregnant - it was compensation for loss of potential earnings based on the fact that a career had been cut short. There was one case where an AB tried to prove that she could have made Admiral and therefore her claim went well into 6 figures. Thats when the MOD got tough and the cases went for more reasonable amounts of cash. There was the same thing concerning non sea-going wrns and promotion to Warrant - one CPO I know of collected a 6 figure payout over that issue.

None of this means that I'm happy about mind....
 

Karma

War Hero
silverfox said:
None of this means that I'm happy about mind....
Personally I tend towards the you knew the rules school of thought, and some certainly abused the system once the compensation started coming in. I knew a couple who were quite happily ensconced in second careers who suddenly decided they could have made Commander.

But as RC says, you can't pick and choose once the legislation is in place.

there were several mothers amongst the ship's company when I was an XO and it was never an issue
I've had mixed experiences, one new mother (RAF) who made no arragnements for childcare and expected the other members of my unit to take up the slack for her late arrivals, early departures and unexpectedly not turning up on watch at all. Unfortunately she was also unwilling to take the opportunity of a swap to a more suitable posting, and since it takes nearly a year to dispose of someone whilst remaining compliant with EO legislation it really took its toll on the capability. But that wasn't motherhood, that was attitude.

OTOH I've also employed single fathers a couple of times, in both cases the individuals went to the other extreme to ensure proper childcare, just in case. Different situation as the kids in question were older, pre-teen and early teen.
 

Jimmy_Green

War Hero
Is a mother more important than a father to a child? There are plenty of well rounded people who have grown up without one or other of their parents around. I think it comes down to the individual in how much they want to be around their offspring. I'm sure there are many men who decide to leave the Navy as they want to spend more time with their family.

Although traditionally it was women that stayed at home to bring up the children many men have done the same in a role reversal. A friend of mine did exactly that but at the 'mothers and toddlers' get togethers he found it hard to be accepted, purely for being male.

At sea women are just as capable as men, and you can't use size and strength as an arguement as I've seen many Wrens that are bigger and stronger than some of the lads. I think that whether a woman is a mother or not is largely irrelevant in today's society where often the responsibility of childcare is shared out.

Many years ago I heard the following phrase (though I am unable to recall who said it), that "a country that sends its women to war is morally bankrupt".

Perhaps that's what we should be thinking about.
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
You're quite right Jimmy. The only question that remains is, "IS this country morally bankrupt?", and I would contend that with the sort of people who are in positions of responsibility at present, the people who report and manipulate the news, the liars and self-seekers that infest the political class, and the 80% of the population who can see no further than the result of some rigged poll over a banal item on television, the answer is probably "yes".
Fortunately, the remaining 20% is large enough to include most of those who are serving, or have served, their country.

2BM
 

sulzer

Lantern Swinger
Women at sea: In WW2 WRENS crewed many of the harbour launches in Portsmouth and in other ports. From personal experience (they missed) daily Luftwaffe strafing runs were made over the Portsmouth area which was a front-line as one can be!
 

finknottle

Banned
sulzer said:
Women at sea: In WW2 WRENS crewed many of the harbour launches in Portsmouth and in other ports. From personal experience (they missed) daily Luftwaffe strafing runs were made over the Portsmouth area which was a front-line as one can be!
They were made of sterner stuff in those days.
 

slim

War Hero
Not to mention the many female ferry pilots who delivered aircraft to the front line units.
 

silverfox

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
This thread was originally about one particular mother... it has now developed into a women at sea/front line in general thread. Which is a slightly more wide ranging topic, and as such it does not really belong in CA any more, therefore I shall shift it accordingly.

Just in case anyone was wondering....
 

aussiepint

War Hero
Reference original post-the Iranians are using Faye Turney for their own propaganda because she is a woman and is a mother. They know that this is an emotive point. Is it just me, but is this 'Alpha Mother' not using Faye Turney in the same way? She got the feedback she wanted, and I'm sure The Times are happy with that. Good for her. Despite her personal feelings toward Ms Turney, I wonder how Alpha Mother feels about the amount of fathers who serve proudly in the forces? It is obviously a tricky business balancing career and family life for both men and women. It is a shame that Alpha Mother has used Faye Turney to write an emotive blog, when Faye Turney belongs to a force that would defend Alpha Mothers two children if she was called to do so. Even if that meant leaving her own child.
 

Nigaramus

Lantern Swinger
rosinacarley said:
Nigaramus said:
higthepig said:
It may be worth remembering that it isn`t all that long ago that when a servicewoman became pregnant they had to leave, or am i too old?
And sued the mob for all they could get!!
Sorry - you can't chose which laws you abide by and which you do not. The MoD was in the wrong by requiring pregnant ladies to leave, ergo they had to make restitution. Are you telling Nig that if you were seriously injured by someone elses negligence you would not sue the arse off them?
But if it was the law why did they not abide by Naval Law - if they felt like it or just got pi**ed of with everything were they just allowed to hand their ID Card in and walk out the gate. I was Vice Chairman of the Drake Club in the 70's when one of my Committee members ( Leading Wren Writer) gave me her ID card and asked me to pass it in to the Reg Office as she was leaving.
I am still friends with her and she told me a few months later that nothing was ever done about it then and not even now. I also heard of a couple of other WRNS who did the same thing.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I don't think Blue Wrns came under the Naval Disipline Act Nigs, so maybe that was the reason, same as any Civvy walking out of work with out giving notice, wrong but not usually worth pursuing
 

RoofRat

War Hero
My ex missus was a blue WREN back in the mid 60's. when we got married she just told the Chief Wren Reg. she was leaving, and that was that. Never heard another thing. But you're right, they never came under the NDA back then.
RoofRat
 

morsehorse

Lantern Swinger
Hi
I was a blue badge Wren serving 70 thru 92,the 2 last years of service 91/92 I was in the Navy and changed over to red and gold badges.
I think we came under the NDA in 78/79 and that was when we came under the same rules as the men i.e 18 months notice etc.
As for the Chief Wren who sued the navy over promotion prospects she was and is still a very good friend of mine.When the wrens went to sea in 90 both she and I were Chiefs at the time and they did not want us at sea,the MODs choice not ours they only wanted volunteers up to the Pos rate,but what was not said was that she would not be elgible for Warrant Officer as she did not have sea time a prerequisite for Warrant Officer.
How could she achieve this if they did not want us at sea.
I fully endorse her Tribunal and good luck to her,she was and is a very determined woman.
MH
 

dizzywtr

Midshipman
brazenhussy said:
it has taken a`situation like faye to bring to the forefront of British media---
women have been at sea since 1991- yet now we all kick off and get irate--
Faye believed in what she was doing, as did I, yet now people condone her as she is a mother??!!!
She is holding down a career to provide the best she can for her child, so what right do we have to disrespect her for that - or indeed for any serving mother, be her army navy or raf?
at the end of the day they / we have the guts not only to fight for "queen and country" but also to fight the bigots that appear in this type of situation....
Totally agree with you! BTW I am a serving mum of a two and a half year old daughter.
 
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