Sharpshooter 7.62mm

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by seafarer1939, Jan 22, 2010.

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  1. Now that the old man is home full of piss and vinegar I can go back to California happy.
    I want to leave with one question for the more experienced to mull over.
    The old man has a lot of experience in rifle shooting,he won the Nato rifle competition and was selected for the Bisley RN team.
    As long as I can remember he said the Nato round was too small to be effective and wanted the 7.62mm.We argued a bit!
    Nato the USA and the developed EU/Australasia Forces can't be wrong, but it horrified him to read a Commando had to pump 11 bullets into a charging Taliban to bring him down,he rightly said we did not realise that they are so pumped up with amphetamine tablets that it prevents the body going into shock so we must change the round to 7.62mm stop them and two or three 7.62mm would do that.
    [I have to admit he has no battlefield experience but he knows about kinetic energy and all that related stuff]
    I notice that we now have purchased the Sharpshooter USA 7.62mm rifle to bring them down,
    has he been proved correct to a degree? the SA80 is up for change in a few years to the H&K[maybe]but should it be 7.62mm? I gather the SA80 is superb for CQ but not so at longer range,this seems to be the reason for the purchase.
    I've served 25 years but all in air military avionics,not really into weapon knowledge[been to Affiestan on secondment] so it begs that question, although I never bought into the stated 300 yard accuracy of the SA80 as the limit.
    Robert Graves[author of I Claudius] whilst in WW1 didn't want to shoot a German officer whilst he was in the bath as it was ungentlemanly!he asked his sergeant to do it and he did dispatch him,range?700 yards with a bog standard .303 with no scope,so?have we progressed any?
    Just posing a question,he's too ill to understand just yet to know any replies, but I'll tell him later if any articles are forthcoming.
    If we had the will to develop a new rifle it could be tremendous but no! We buy everything from other countries even the ammo from Belgium, when they decide we can have it.
    You can bet if there is a EU Army,the rifle and a lot more will be French as they get what they want from weak countries such as ours. It sucks.

    I'd like an answer from any who have used the SA80 in theatre who really know.

    I won't be sorry to leave this county for good,it's mostly gone to hell.
    You now face the hike in EU contributions of 2.3billion this year!are we mad?see what other EU members are paying.
    I'm proud to be British and will always come home[with an American wife ]but we are being taken as fools by the EU,we do all the fighting,we allow any toe rag in and we pay fortunes and allow the EU judges to say we can't crackdown on terrorists. On second thoughts I may not be back too often. We have the most kind and tolerant people on the planet but when will you realise that you have to be strong when needed. It's not happening.
    The USA can be violent in places but far safer in others,at least you know the criminals are locked up and the key tossed.

    Finally although I won't be here to see any immediate replies, I'll pass any on that's relevant when I can.

    Good luck to you all,I'll wear the Rum Rat T-Shirt with pride on a USA golf course and wait for their questions. Sean[signed off!]
  2. Slighty off topic but when i was acting as cat 2 support for SF, i got talking to a Americian Ranger and he mentioned a dit that quite a few off them were complaining that their side arm (9mm) was not enough to put Terry down, this was either through high on drugs or through the amount of clothing as it was winter time. As i said it was only a dit so who knows.
    But this does remind me (another training dit) when in basic we got to see a bullet penertration video, basically it consisted of two crazy yanks shooting at each other but their only protection was yellow pages and other bits and pieces, and the hands guns they used were 9mm to .45.
  3. I have no experience of using the rifle in theatre. But I did ask a similar question to someone who had, whilst working in an armoury a few years back. He explained that the 5.56 was specifically designed wound and not to kill. The theory being that killing removes only one enemy from the battlefield. Wounding, however, removes up to ten enemy. This because the wounded man requires first aid, casevac, surgery and further treatment. All of which is a massive drain on your enemies resources and logistics.
  4. I've heard that one before too, thing is would probably work against an organised army who care about their troops but how does it play out when you are shooting at a rabble who leave their oppos where they fall?

    Not sure if there is a good final answer to this one, SA80 has proven itself to be a good weapon, just hasn't got the stopping power to take a man out with one shot at any sort of range
  5. Some how i dont think a 7.62 would be suited to room clearing, especially if non hostiles are in there. You will end up taking the bad guy out, a hole in the wall and maybe damage who is on the other side.
  6. The SA 80 is meant for short(ish)combat use .But it is meant to kill like any other gun rifle.So like the slr Belgium FN etc only over a longer range .It has been adopted as the new sniper rifle .I think mod is taking delivery of some soon to be used in afghanistan.My own experience been that the SLR was a fantastic weapon also the 7.62 bren out of this world .Some earley FN wer automatic but fired off too quick so they made em semi hance the SLR came along
  7. My old man use to nickname it the Elephant Gun cause of the power and the recoil.
  8. The answer is easy:-
    Ek = 1/2(mv^2)
  9. Knew you'd say that...
  10. Thats okay Labrum and I were still using the SLR into the mid 1990's. The longlest Reserve forces training in the British forces but at the time (even longer that UKSF (R) also the most inadequately equiped!!
  11. I think the SLR did have a long and trouble free service .It was a beutiful weapon to maintain and service clean etc and a accurate as well that depending on the man firing it.I was in the top three on the range with it
  12. 7.62 has not been adopted for the new sniper rifle mucker. Can't quite get at what your saying there mate; is that what you meant?
  13. Not a sniper rifle though mate.

    Calling a sharpshooter a sniper is like calling a diver a submarine just because he goes underwater sometimes.
  14. That's why I didn't say that it was a sniper rifle.
  15. Thats one of its aims though.The army wants it just for that because of its rang.NBot a true sniper rifle as they have a much longer range
  16. Apologies; thought you were supporting lesbryan's premis. The beer has been lovely tonight :D
  17. I own a few rifles and know a little bit about them; I never bought into the 5.56mm rationale and 7.62mm x 51 is a good round - far better than the SovBloc 7.62mm short. Having said that a very good friend of mine put 3 rounds of 7.62mm ball into a man's torso and the guy lived.

    This is for sale in my local gun-shop and it brings back a few memories.

  18. Have shot them all

    303 No 4 good rifle but basically superceded due to the rimmed cartridge
    magazine jam-ups -it did a long time as a frontline weapon though

    7.62 mm --308 Win good round and used in the SLR proved its capabilities
    still used in GPMG and at Bisley for the Imperial Target Competitions

    5.56mm SA 80 accurate and effective -- possibly adopted due to being a lighter round and allowing more to be carried compared to weight of 7.62 rounds.
    Also agree with the mentioned - causes wounds /casualties

    Latest sniper calibre is the .338 heavier round and longer range accuracy
    although the barrett .50 is getting popular

    As for pistols I still think the old 45ACP was the finest man stopper ever made 9mm is Ok but it needs to hit vitals to stop someone.

    My personal favourite Rifle round is the 30-06 --- superb accuracy and can
    be used with a multitude of bullet weights and loads .

    G :fish:
  19. .300 WinMag for my rifle round.

    10mm for my short


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