Sharky Ward

Discovery5

Midshipman
In Warship magazine there is an interesting article by the above suggesting that the the F35 is not the best decision the RN has ever had and indicates that all we need to do, is to stick and angled flight on and fly the Super Hornet. I wonder what he knows that we don't.
 

bollotom

War Hero
Good ol' Sharky. There seems to be a lot of F35 cons and very few pros. I wonder if it, F35, will become the success the makers keep telling us. Perhaps Sharky has a point. :cool:
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
"Super Hornet" no matter how it is redesigned is based upon 4th Gen capabilities. The whole point of buying into an advanced 5th Gen programme is to incorporate technology and capability capable of operating against future complex threats given that all of our near peer and peer adversaries are eroding our current technical lead.

Why would we want to buy into something that's fit for todays fight but will immediately become increasingly irrelevant over the next 20 years and which would leave us less able to contribute with our coalition/partner nations?

The bottom line is that very few complex weapons systems appear off the drawing board in perfect working order. Typhoon is only now getting its full capability. F35 was always going to be delivered in blocks, because its adopting complex and largely new technology to keep it at the leading edge.

The aircraft increasingly gets positive feedback from aircrew they should be the yardstick we judge it by, not the press. The reports from the recent red Flag in Nevada were overwhelmingly positive (15:1 kill ratios), not bad for an aircraft so new and still being developed as a warfighting platform.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
@wave_dodger , what would they be putting it against at 15:1 kill ratio?

It flew against the normal red Flag OpFor package which is largely F16 with avionics/weapons to simulate other nations. This being the same a/c that previous reports said were ripping F35 apart in simulated dog fights......

There are numbers of links about the exercise but the official one is quite interesting as it is quite honest and points out in the initial defensive serials the F35 flew alone and achieved high kill rates (up to 15:1) and then in layered packages with F22 (and other assets, EW, AWACS) it was hitting 15:1. This latter aspect was seized upon by the F35 detractors as being proof it couldn't operate alone, which is nonsense (to my mind as the whole point is that it will routinely operate with 4th/5th Gen support and other enablers such as EW and AWACS assets.

Again, the aircrew made all positive remarks about its performance and its engineering availability.
 

Discovery5

Midshipman
If you have spent the amount of money that has been spent on the F35 it is hardly surprising it had a 15.1 kill ratio, they are trying to sell it. The more interesting question is, what happens if Mr Trump decides to cancel it. It then would pose the question of how long would it take to fit cats and traps on the new carriers.
 

Wightsparker

War Hero
Swordfish and Gladiator


I seem to recall a theory that the WW2 Kriegsmarine had difficulties with shooting down the Swordfish because they could not believe it could be so slow. Was that simply a WW2 urban myth? The heroic actions of Lt Cdr Esmonde's half dozen Swordfish in their Channel Dash attack could not prevent all the aircraft being shot down - though, to be fair, German fighters were largely responsible.

But Janner's tongue in cheek comment raises a point which might be worth examining. Could fighters from "the 5th Gen programme" have problems with low-tech aircraft? Or unmanned aircraft, come to that?
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
If you have spent the amount of money that has been spent on the F35 it is hardly surprising it had a 15.1 kill ratio, they are trying to sell it. The more interesting question is, what happens if Mr Trump decides to cancel it. It then would pose the question of how long would it take to fit cats and traps on the new carriers.

One..he won't cancel it, and in many way's cannot - he doesn't own the programme, the Navy do and in legislative terms he's potentially years away from being able to cancel it.

Two...it's always been designed to be an effective platform, but 15:1 is much more than even the F22 attained, go figure

three...cancel and replace it with what? Nothing else is ready for the future threat environment and what would they do with the aircrew, ground crew and infrastructure built for F35.....
 
I seem to recall a theory that the WW2 Kriegsmarine had difficulties with shooting down the Swordfish because they could not believe it could be so slow. Was that simply a WW2 urban myth? The heroic actions of Lt Cdr Esmonde's half dozen Swordfish in their Channel Dash attack could not prevent all the aircraft being shot down - though, to be fair, German fighters were largely responsible.

But Janner's tongue in cheek comment raises a point which might be worth examining. Could fighters from "the 5th Gen programme" have problems with low-tech aircraft? Or unmanned aircraft, come to that?
Gen dit. Try and get Your hands on John Godley's, AKA Lord Kilbrackens excellent book. 'Bring Back My Stringbag'
 
Top