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Sevastopol 2017

sadindiefreak

Midshipman
I was watching the news yesterday morning and they had an article about the Black Sea Fleet having to leave Sevastopol by 2017 when their current lease is up. Although Russia want to extend their lease Yushchenko the Ukrainian President is against this.
This is tied in with Ukraine wanting to join NATO.

I can see this leading to a major problem down the line as the majority of Ukrainians would be very much against the Russians leaving.

I have heard that Russia may be building a huge Naval Base at Sochi on the Russian coast of the Black Sea which would ease any tensions over losing Sevastopol.

Do any of you guys know anything more about what may develop with this situation as I am very interested in it as my wife is Ukrainian.

If Sevastopol does eventually come under NATO then it will be a top place for you Navy Boys to go as the women are stunning and the booze is cheap. Plus Crimea is a beautiful place was there 3 years ago.
 
sadindiefreak said:
I was watching the news yesterday morning and they had an article about the Black Sea Fleet having to leave Sevastopol by 2017 when their current lease is up. Although Russia want to extend their lease Yushchenko the Ukrainian President is against this.
This is tied in with Ukraine wanting to join NATO.

I can see this leading to a major problem down the line as the majority of Ukrainians would be very much against the Russians leaving.I have heard that Russia may be building a huge Naval Base at Sochi on the Russian coast of the Black Sea which would ease any tensions over losing Sevastopol.

Do any of you guys know anything more about what may develop with this situation as I am very interested in it as my wife is Ukrainian.

If Sevastopol does eventually come under NATO then it will be a top place for you Navy Boys to go as the women are stunning and the booze is cheap. Plus Crimea is a beautiful place was there 3 years ago.

From what I have read and seen on various news channels, including Russia Today and other European TV stations your statement is not exactly correct. The majority of the Population around Sevastopol are of recent descent or are still Russian having come with the Russian Navy. The Population of the Ukraine in general want the Russians out and closer ties with the West and NATO.

It replicates the situation in Georgia and no doubt will cause problems as 2017 approaches.

Nutty
 
I think in that case the Ukrainians need to start "repopulating" the area to make sure that the majority of people living there are indeed Ukranian by the time the lease is up, to stop Russia pulling another one of its stunts like Georgia.
 
It's been a Russian naval base for the past 200 years, and as for them joining NATO, in my opinion it's just causing mischief.
 
Streaky said:
It's been a Russian naval base for the past 200 years,

Doesn't make it Russian! When your lease is up, its time to move out, no matter that you've just re-decorated!

Streaky said:
and as for them joining NATO, in my opinion it's just causing mischief.

Causing mischief is hiding your mums reading glasses when you were a kid.
Joining NATO is an attempt at getting protection from Russian re-expansionism. In my opinion.
:)
 
Has the Ukraine ever been independant?

Dubya has been rightly slagged off for his Middle Eastern policies, so how come he's suddenly got it right over Russia?

No sorry, I don't agree, but that's only my opinion.
:)
 
Streaky what has this got to do with Dubya mate?
He's gone whatever happens, and I happen to agree with you regarding "his" policies on the Middle East, but I can't see whats wrong with the Ukraine wanting to join NATO. If Russia doesn't like it, tough! They pouted and pranced when Poland made public its allowing the US missile site but at the end of the day, its nothing to do with the Russians. Just like at the end of the day, they'll have to leave the base in another country, OR come to a mutually acceptable agreement with the Ukraine, which they won't do, because they like to think that they are still the big man on the world stage and throw their weight around :)
 
Ukraine has always been in the Russian sphere of influence.

Just look what the Yanks did when the Russians tried muscling in on Yank turf, vis a vis Cuba.

Can you not see any parallels here? Any hypocrisy?

As to what it has to do with Dubya, do you honestly think the Ukraine would be allowed in the club if he hadn't said yes?
 
Look mate I just think that Russia needs to be put back in its box a bit, thats all. I can't see the problem with Ukraine becoming a member of NATO, and like I said, if the lease is up and not renewed then Russia should leave, and not look for excuses to move in with all that "for the protection of its citizens" boll0cks.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a lover of US foreign policy one iota either, its cost too many British lives.
Dubya is not the be-all and end-all of NATO, as much as he would like to think so. I'm SURE that there is a vote on new member states, and the US has no more votes than anyone else, influence or not.
 
I quite agree about Russia, especially Putin, needing to be put back in it's box, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

Just look how the Russian Stock Market has been affected by the Georgia invasion.
How many foreign investors have legged it with their money?

Finance is the way to do it.

Oh, and while I think on, don't let them buy any more British football teams. That'll show we mean business!
 
Streaky said:
Ukraine has always been in the Russian sphere of influence.

Just look what the Yanks did when the Russians tried muscling in on Yank turf, vis a vis Cuba.

Can you not see any parallels here? Any hypocrisy?

As to what it has to do with Dubya, do you honestly think the Ukraine would be allowed in the club if he hadn't said yes?

I can see the parallel that when the UK's lease was up in Hong Kong it was with great dignity and excellent accord, sorted out years before the due date that the colony was passed back to China.

If you are a Soverign Goverment, as is Russia, then you must abide by an agreed lease like it or not. As with the two Georgian States they have bullied and forced a seperation which suits their purpose.

As for Cuba we were in the hottest part of a COLD War at that time dealing with an agressive dictatoreship not dealing with what is now supposed to be a a civilized democracy and trading partner.

Nutty

Sadindiefreak is your wife is of Russian parents/decent or the holder of a Russian passport prior to your marriage?
 
Streaky said:
Just look how the Russian Stock Market has been affected by the Georgia invasion.
How many foreign investors have legged it with their money?

Finance is the way to do it.

Fair point well made Sir!

Streaky said:
Oh, and while I think on, don't let them buy any more British football teams. That'll show we mean business!

They should be made to sell any clubs that they already own for fifty pence to the nearest pikey camp!
:D
(Not that I'm jealous you understand!)
 

sadindiefreak

Midshipman
Nutty said:
From what I have read and seen on various news channels, including Russia Today and other European TV stations your statement is not exactly correct. The majority of the Population around Sevastopol are of recent descent or are still Russian having come with the Russian Navy. The Population of the Ukraine in general want the Russians out and closer ties with the West and NATO.
Nutty

Nutty I don't agree with you about the Ukrainians wanting Russia out, they do indeed want closer ties with the West but not at the expense of losing their close bond with Russia.

The Ukrainian president may well want Russia out and the western media portrays that it is the general population that want this but I can assure you it is far from the truth.

The population of Ukraine supported Russia in their actions in Georgia only the politicians objected.
The vast majority of Ukrainians don't want to move further away from Russia.
I know this from 1st hand from the wifes family and friends and also from Ukrainian Sat TV.
 

sadindiefreak

Midshipman
Nutty said:
Sadindiefreak is your wife is of Russian parents/decent or the holder of a Russian passport prior to your marriage?

No she is Ukrainian as are both parents, her father lives in Russia, or did until he disappeared about 2 years ago presumed murdered by his 2nd wife but thats another story.
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
My understanding is that the Crimea was transferred to the Ukraine by cuddly Uncle Joe. Historically it was always part of Russia, although once populated by some nove people called the Pechenegs whose chief, Svyatislov, drank out of a cup made out of one of his enemies' skulls.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
The Crimea was Russian territorry until 1954 when Nikita Kruschev, ( A Ukrainian) gave it to the Ukraine.

Also… the vast majority of Ukrainians, while they want closer ties with the West, regard joining NATO as a bad idea that will cause trouble.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Lamri said:
Look mate I just think that Russia needs to be put back in its box a bit, thats all. I can't see the problem with Ukraine becoming a member of NATO, and like I said, if the lease is up and not renewed then Russia should leave, and not look for excuses to move in with all that "for the protection of its citizens" boll0cks.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a lover of US foreign policy one iota either, its cost too many British lives.
Dubya is not the be-all and end-all of NATO, as much as he would like to think so. I'm SURE that there is a vote on new member states, and the US has no more votes than anyone else, influence or not.


You reckon?

The retarded US Secretary of Defence is now openly saying that if Georgia joins NATO, any attack by Russia will lead to an armed response…

The Yanks are basically ******* insane wanting to push NATO into a guaranteed war situation.
 
Oil_Slick said:
US Secretary of Defence is now openly saying that if Georgia joins NATO, any attack by Russia will lead to an armed response…


Erm, maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but isn't that the way its meant to be?
A NATO country gets attacked, the rest of NATO wades in?
Am I wrong here?
Or are you the one being a bit melodramatic :roll:
 

AfterSSE

War Hero
I don't see any problem with former Soviet colonies (that's what they were) warming up to the west as in NATO, protection is a racket, the Russian Mafia know all about that, as do any other illegal organizations that run smuggling/narcotics/fraud/money laundering and that's just the tip of the iceberg for the ex-KGB/GRU types who took control of the institutions when the wall collapsed..

As far as I am concerned Condo, put the ball squarely in the Ruskies side of the court and it's their turn to either return it or STFU, as for Sevastopol, the Russians signed an agreement, but as has been seen of late those are worthless bits of paper as far as the Russians are concerned, case in point the recent truce agreement with Georgia and the pull out of Russian troops.

Russia is slowly backing itself into a corner, only they are delusional if they think they are capable of taking on NATO and or China, (China may share a very large border with the Soviets, but they haven't forgotten all of the incursions by Soviet troops during the 60's, 70' right up to the 90's)

Putin is chest thumping, but he doesn't have the military capability to take on a fully armed NATO, this isn't 1975-1985 where they were in their military prime..the majority of their assets are either in dry dock or rusting alongside the walls, also a lot of their crews are made up of different ethnic groups so they would be very cautious taking on a particular country close to them, their army is still locked into the 60's, their dicipline is terrible or has everyone forgotten the reports after the wall fell where they couldn't pay their own servicemen and women, so a lot of them just up and deserted.They may be able to put a few credible units together, but they haven't the experience, the veterans from Afghanistan have all died off or quit, so right now if they were to face battle hardened US/UK troops, they would leave the field or get their arses whupped...

Just my 0.02 cents worth... :thumright:
 

sadindiefreak

Midshipman
As far as Georgia goes I feel the Russians were quite justified in going in.
Georgia were the aggressors killing civilians in South Ossetia.
It was reported on Ukrainian TV that the Georgians were carrying out genocide.
4 villages near he border were completely wiped out.
Tanks were driving over the top of people.
One family hid in their basement and the Georgians flooded it and when they came out shot them all, men women and children.

Maybe they were heavy handed in their response but it could be argued that we have been the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
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