Seriously wrong here

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by AfterSSE, May 29, 2007.

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  1. When...
    How do the insurgents get a hold of 40 police vehicles....enough is enough, there are no trustworthy allies amongst the troops over there. :rambo:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6700319.stm
     
  2. I keep repeating this but the politicians aint listening. we are not wanted there, pull our troops out and let the civil war run it's course.
     
  3. Iraq/Afghanistan, graveyards for western armies, in fact any armies for thousands of years, from the Romans to the Russians.
    I feel so terribly sorry for the hardships our troops are going through and the worry and grief caused by this war.
    The UK's participation in it has done us a great deal of harm in international relations and tarnished our image immeasurably.
    Our own press and politicians have without doubt caused even more damage than any enemy; and that is not restricted to the present unpleasantness.
     
  4. sussex2 I concur.
     
  5. Because some the police are insurgents? Nothing to stop someone signing on the dotted line, taking a wage and then continuing to attack coalition forces and carrying out sectarian killings.
     
  6. With enough money,anybody will get anything you want!Remember Viet Nam?How could the NVA and VC be distinguished from the good Vietnamese?As someone said,"all gooks look the same" maybe its the same with the Iraquis?
     
  7. My old grandad had a favourite saying when he came back from North Africa at the end of WWII and was heard to repeat it until the day he died ----- Never, NEVER, trust a F***ing Arab.

    They've been screwing us over since the middle ages, because basically they hold a grudge forever and pass it on from father to son.

    At the end of the day they got what they wanted from the west - the end of the Saddam regieme. That's all they wanted and as soon as they got it all they wanted was for the West to F*** off to let them sort out which potential dictator they were going to put in power next - I bet in 30 or 40 years time they'll be begging the west to help them remove whatever psyco they have in power then. And like the p****s our politicians always have been and always will be, they'll take our forces in again to be shot by some cowardly insurgent who months before threw flowers at their feet.

    Leave 'em to it I say - I'm sure HM forces could be used for something much more important. Every time I see a report about one of our guys being slaughtered in the course of helping these f-wits it makes my F-ing blood boil.
     
  8. Bunny, my grandad said pretty much the same about the Indian population when he got back from India after WWII - he also said Enoch Powell was right.....

    Bring the troops home, let Iran get on with running Iraq into the ground becasue we all know that come what may the US & UK will be blamed and hated for centuries but whenever there are natural disasters they will come running to us with hands held out....
     

  9. In 30 or 40 yrs time no one will give a shit because the oil wouldve gone. They will be back in the deserts killing each other again. Look whats happening in Zimbabwe, this government and the US doesnt give a shit about Mugabe because his country does not produce oil or gas.
     
  10. I have a horrible feeling that it will be us running tothem with our hands held out once the oil starts to become scarce. Until we in the west become self sufficient in energy production and finding alternatives to oil and gas, we are at the mercy of the Arab states. As much as we want the troops to come home, the government knows that if we leave, the ensuing civil war will seriously disrupt oil supplies from Iraq. No doubt the other OPEC countries will pick up the slack but you can just imagine how petrol prices will shoot up anyway. Someone only has to sneeze in Saudi and a penny goes on the price at the pumps. So I am rather cynically afraid that regardless of public opinion, both the UK and especially the US are there for a while yet (See the thread earlier about GWB plans to stay in Iraq for 50 years!). It is simply too politically and ecconomically suicidal to pull out until the oil flow from Iraq is permanently secure, or better alternatives to oil are found - probably in about 50 years time. Meanwhile, our troops continue to die...
     
  11. Thing is though the Middle East aren't the only ones with the oil, apparently here in Canada (Alberta) the oil sands are the equivalent of whatever the middle east can give up, also the off shore gas and oil haven't really been fully abused, I think it's more a big corporation type thing, don't forget the Bush family comes from oil and they are very friendly with the royals in Saudi Arabia, so there is more then meets the eye as well as all the reconstruction contracts being thrown around to Bush's and Cheney's friends and the multinational companies spread out all over the place..

    Tbh, I think we could survive if they pulled out all support in the Middle East, the problem is that a) prices will go up which will force us to go greener, not nescessarily a bad thing b) The Saudi's would be afraid to try it alone. So these two scenarios will ensure we are there forever...
     
  12. What's it all about with Oil, the Arabs and the USA?

    Simple enough really, since 1975, OPEC thanks to the House of Saud agreed to sell and buy all oil in $$$$$$. That means the US Treasury can print money like it's going put of fashion without the usual worries about inflation. As the demand for oil goes up, the international demand for $$$$$ goes up. USA gets a totally artificial and hugely standard of living, Arabs coin it likes nobdies business… USA is going to make DAMN sure that cosy little arrangement lasts even if it means starting wars and kicking over democratic governments or supporting the most vicious of dictatorships.

    If you want to see what happens when you kick over the traces and threaten the $$$$ supremacy and stability, by say trading your oil in the Euro, look no further than our late friend Sadaam.

    Sells oil in $$$$$… ignored, sells oil in Euros? Invaded within a matter of months and all contracts in Euros cancelled and replaced with $$$ contracts.

    Moving smartly on… Iran, now the US Public Enemy No1 after years of being studiously ignored… be nothing to do with Ahmadinijad floating the idea of an Euro Oil Bourse last year would it?

    As our American cousins say… 'go figure'
     
  13. I agree with both Sussex and Slim, but the PM wants to save face, so in practice there'll be no moves to evacuate until Brown is PM, when an excuse will be found to exit "honourably". We should have focussed upon the original aggressor in Afghanistan, then we might have stood a chance of achieving our politicomilitary objectives. As things stand we look likely to lose both in Iraq AND Afghanistan, all because of political miscalculation and delusions of international statemanship.
     
  14. Yes,agreed, selling oil in Euros was the icing on the cake there.
    Incidently in October 06 an announcement of a find in the Gulf of Mexico was made. This discovery reportedly is a field / resevoir of sweet crude 300 sq miles and 800 ft deep. It basically rivals Prudoe Bay in Alaska, the water depth is around 4500ft deep.
    It'll probably take about 10 years for meaningful production to start and'll need massive investment to get going.
    So, might we see in around 10 years, a declining American interest in the Middle East? Probably only if the septics can rein in their ridiculous fuel consumption and husband their resources.
    Perhaps banning engines that do about 10mpg might be a start. Producing an engine, in this day and age, of such breathtaking inefficiency beggars belief. Is it done on purpose, or are the designers just incompetant or bone idle? Yes SUVs are like tanks and need powerful engines, but in the late 80's the Bentley Muslanne Turbo weighed in at 2.5 tons, but still returned about 20mpg (12 if you floored it).
     
  15. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Having recently worked within the car industry for Jaguar/Land-Rover I'd like to defend the engineers who design the cars and pin the blame on senior management; the design imperative is no longer a tangible feature or target, its all about a "lifestyle". Jaguar Cars offer luxury and performance, Land-Rover offer exceptional off-road performance, Volvo is perceived as the choice for safety and reliability etc. These elements of "brand-DNA" <spit><spit><washes mouth with soap-and-water to remove final traces of marketing-drone-BS> quite often necessitate bigger engines with ridiculoius characteristics. As a specific example, while economy was cited as important on one model, the perception of performance was seen as more important - the result, a larger diesel engine was installed in lieu of the petrol engine to obtain economy - the increased engine size resulted in increased weight which in turn led to decreased perfomance. The chief engineer's solution? Simple, put a bigger engine in! In the end, all the engineering effort managed to achieve was a larger heavier car with no improvement (or degradation) in either performance or economy!
     
  16. Having recently worked within the car industry for Jaguar/Land-Rover I'd like to defend the engineers who design the cars and pin the blame on senior management; the design imperative is no longer a tangible feature or target, its all about a "lifestyle". Jaguar Cars offer luxury and performance, Land-Rover offer exceptional off-road performance, Volvo is perceived as the choice for safety and reliability etc. These elements of "brand-DNA" <spit><spit><washes mouth with soap-and-water to remove final traces of marketing-drone-BS> quite often necessitate bigger engines with ridiculoius characteristics. As a specific example, while economy was cited as important on one model, the perception of performance was seen as more important - the result, a larger diesel engine was installed in lieu of the petrol engine to obtain economy - the increased engine size resulted in increased weight which in turn led to decreased perfomance. The chief engineer's solution? Simple, put a bigger engine in! In the end, all the engineering effort managed to achieve was a larger heavier car with no improvement (or degradation) in either performance or economy![/quote]

    Cheers for the info FW, so they need to get around this "lifestyle" rubbish. The only way I can see that happening is by educating the GP, legislating mandatory minimum economy figures or taxing them to the hilt. Trouble is extra taxes or tarriffs don't seem to work. Disposable income and ignorance is bliss I suppose.
     
  17. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Ooer, wonder if my Granddad & yours must've known each other?

    Yours didn't use to rant at Top of The Pops, telling them they were: "Meant to sing into the microphone, not eat it" and "Bloody scruffs, they need a haircut & National Service" did he?

    Then when he got one of the first ever colour TVs on the planet, decided he was going to have maximum colour. Your eyes would be assaulted by vivid reds & greens?

    Small world, eh?
     
  18. Dusty is absolutely spot on. Until and unless we become self sufficient in terms of power we will never be able to disentangle ourselves from the Middle East.

    The sooner that we replace oil based cars, power factories, etc the better. Trouble is that at this time there still aren't enough votes to be had in supporting these. It's getting better, but we're a long way off.

    SF
     

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