Serious debate lacking

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by invinoveritas2, Aug 25, 2010.

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  1. Rum Ration lacks "Serious Debate" How true.Let's put things right.

    1. A debate on the waste of public funds maintaining three Academies.

    nd that RAF one,

    Why not combine all three?

    Most of which the cadets are taught is applicable to all three services.

    One College for all--and--perhaps one uniform.
  2. Yeah great idea NEXT!!! yawn zzzzzz
  3. Oh for goodness sake, I have read through al your inane posts and this really is too tiresome to even be going on with.

    If you ever served in the Royal Navy you would know exactly why BRNC cannot be combined with Sandhurst or Cranwell and what different qualities are needed as a Naval Officer against those of the RAF and Army.

    Your little banter was mildly interesting for a very short time but in all honesty you have more than out stayed your welcome.
  4. So you start the ball rolling . Merely dripping doesn't excite.
  5. Invinoveritas2 who are you? And what do you want?
    Are you some journo seeking a next big story and thought it would be a good idea to pfish a Naval Fourm for some help in writing for your shitty left wing paper (Guardian/Independent)?

    Or maybe your some sad act of a person who has nothing better, than to try and start unmeaningful forum topics that just waste most peoples time?

    I Sir nominate you as Cock of the Month.
  6. Guns

    Guns War Hero Moderator

    Easy one this. Think numbers. Think size of new place. Think costs.

    Gee this is easy.
  7. The question should really be why we continue to pay for BRNC when we could easily fit the 400 students a year at Dartmouth into the existing training estate at Torpoint or Fareham? The booties manage to train their grunters at Lympstone without any dilution of standards.
  8. Guns

    Guns War Hero Moderator

    Because it would cost money to build new accommodation, money in redundancy payments, money to build the facilities for the picket boats etc, we would make some money selling the FQs but then it would cost us for the new ones we would need at those locations and so on.

    At the moment spending to save long term is not on the books so we make do with what we have got.

    Who knows what the future holds?
  9. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Hate to say it, but 'Norm' has yet another valid point.

    Problem is that it's the same guy making the same points repeatedly which irks many as he's now pretty much a vexatious litigant

    On a similar vein, why not train Ratings/Other Ranks & Officers of the same service in the same establishment in a similar manner to the Royal Marines? That way, because Officer training is that much more demanding, the mutual respect aspect is inculcated from the outset.
  10. While we're at it, why not co-locate all RN RAF and REME technical training in the arsehole of Wales, and vainly hope that the poorly-paid civvy instructors will just up-sticks and move, rather than seek gainful employment somewhat closer to where they have chosen to make their homes. Surely that would save enough to pay for the new accommodation that would be required.
  11. My wife will be pleased-and the Moldavian Au Pair --I hope.
  12. If you've come here expecting sympathy for the plight of the CI's at Sultan, you are probably wasting your time.
    In much the same way that nobody cared when all the RN instructional jobs where civilianised.
    I suspect that there are plenty of ex military in Wales who will happily take up the slack at the new Academy.
    Theres a reason that civvy instructors are poorly paid. Because theres a huge pool of ex matelots around who will happily take over the job in order to top up their pensions.
  13. Fair point Gunz, though of course, both of our remaining training establishments just happen to have existing facilities for the PBs. The costs of the move will have to offset against the cost of maintaining the vistorian facade at Dirtymouth. I'm well aware of the remaining stock answers that get trotted out every time this sibject rears its head, and the actual savings to be made are actually quite trivial, but I think that a move will eventually become unavoidable.
  14. He probably works for MOD and has been tasked with reducing costs - doesn't know what to do and thus reverts to us to do his job for him.

    I believe that the RN should follow the Green Death route and train both sides at one establishment. One would think that the Dartmouth site is worth a veritable fortune to a property developer and thus outweigh the costs.
    However, this may be seen as the thin edge of the wedge for further amalgamating the armed forces.
  15. A pretty obvious observation but "Once it's gone you can't get it back" It would be a very sad day indeed if we went down that route
  16. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    With reference to combining all RN training in one establishment, along the lines of CTCRM, management guru Sir John Harvey-Jones (ex-RN Officer himself) proposed the same thing in his BBC TV business documentary series "Troubleshooter" in the mid-90s.

    The Admiral who was 'volunteered' to be interview by JHJ on camera blustered and spluttered various reasons why not, but JHJ was not too impressed - but it seemed that the main concern why Ratings and Officers would not train together was "tradition" (i.e. potential officers might feel undermined if they were seen to be failing or struggling under pressure in the presence of those of a junior rank to them...) :oops:
  17. SPB is indeed correct that the option of closing Bunhouse University has been mooted many times over the past few years. There is no real argument for keeping it open, as there is sufficient room to train both streams at Raliegh without causing embarressment to the Cadets Under Naval Training. Who should surely have the intestinal fortitude to accept there shortcomings and overcome them.

    This is indeed rare on RR, a serious informed debate. Shame norman cant join in.
  18. Sympathy for instructors? hardly! In the Army, it is considered to be an honour and privilege to be asked to become an instructor, and they choose the best exponents of their various skills to do what is seen as a prestige job. In the RN, Drafty will stick any clown available in the job, regardless of their ability - some are quite good, most learn about their subject whilst in post, but there are more than a few complete wankers who end up doing these jobs badly. At least the civvy instructors have to prove some sort of ability before they can take up the job, (unless those responsible for hiring are equally as inept and poorly appointed as many serving instructors). Sultan a 'centre of excellence'? All too often, a centre of excrement.

    My point was that, with the poor standard of a fair proportion of serving instructors, many of whom are not committed to the job they do, the sudden loss of a chunk of the experienced cadre that is the CIs will impact on the training delivery in a very negative way, and relying on there being a large untapped reserve of sqep ex-matelots in the VoG seems a little over-optimistic.
  19. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Who..? :?
  20. So you think that all the serving instructors at Sultan are clowns, and the jaded jobsworths who make up the CI cadre are irreplacable? The reason that training at Sultan is so poor is because of the CI system, not despite it.
    As an example, the bloke who taught the welding component of my chippy's course was ex REME. Although he was very experienced at welding AFVs back together, he was obviously completely lost when it came to answering questions about sticking lumps of metal together on a ship. The drive to lower costs has led to the employment of CIs whose limit of their maritime experience is working as a contractor in the dockyard(you can probably guess who I'm talking about here). the move to Netheravon presents an oppertunity to revitalise the training staff, and hopefully lose some deadwood, both service and civilian.

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