Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Jack_McHammocklashing, Nov 13, 2009.

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  1. Many years ago, I had to let certain officers study, certain books, most hated it, and were more than happy that I had signed their log to say they had accessed, some were really keen, and did the full two hours each evening in the Dogs, one was a Mr Bingham

    In those days if you brought a camera onboard it had to be registered at the Reg Office, with its serial number and owners details, few pics allowed on board and only in certain areas

    Now you hop aboard with a mobile phone with 8MG Pix camera, memory sticks and even laptops

    How secure is that?

    We have already seen the Sun paper publish the captains bollocking the crew of the Traf what else is out there

    Jack McH
  2. Agree. We have gone very fluffy. The problem is that, even if you banned all mobile phones, someone would think they knew better and somehow get theirs in anyway - "you can't stop me" and all that.

    The cynic in me says this whole societal change to ridiculous liberalism has been engineered by Labour (think Human Rights Act, Freedom of Information Act, numerous dictats from every Government Department). Without doubt, things in this country are vastly different to 1997. It will never change back either. Every position of power has been eroded - Police Community Support Officers, Teaching Assistants, Nurse Practitioners are all examples of proving that what used to be a valuable resource can be done by anyone at much lesser cost. Certainly from a health point of view recent "advances" have completely demoralised the medical profession turning it from a profession into just another job. If I was to rewind time I'd stay well away from medicine.

    It is sad and I can honestly say that if I wasn't in the RN I would have emigrated a long time ago to a country which has some pride left in itself.

    Endex rantex.
  3. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    What's stopping you Doc?

    With your qualifications and the fact your still serving there's many a country that would snap you up, Jeez, they'd probably pay your airfare and give you disturbance allowance.
  4. I still have a loyalty to the Navy and what it represents. I don't want to be in the Armed Forces of another country - I still have this thing about being British. God knows why - this Government has done everything it can to delete any pride in being British.
  5. If the management enforce the rules then all of the above should still be happening. A huge task, and it would be naieve to think everything could ever be registered these days, but I always consider that education is the way to enforce security rather than logs and a big stick.
  6. You're wrong. It is perfectly simple. It requires little more than an order, a log and, again disagreeing with the part of the quote below, a big stick. The RN is a disciplined service and it takes Seniors and above to have the b*ll*cks to do their job and enforce the rules.
    [quote="SEP86']but I always consider that education is the way to enforce security rather than logs and a big stick.[/quote] I agree absolutely about education, it was mandatory in the past. Sy was accepted; perhaps grudgingly by some; throughout the RN when the FO/Area Sy Teams existed. Their demise coupled with the technology available does make the situation more difficult but it is not by any stretch of the imagination impossible.

    As to the logs, my experience tells me that a body is more likely to complete a particular sy duty if it is logged and signed for. Not infallible but human nature really.
  7. IMD - I think we are pretty much agreeing really. Certainly we both take the subject seriously.

    I was just making the point that if Jack / Jenny has a different mobile phone to ring each wife / girlfriend / boyfriend (lt's face it you wouldn't want one finding the texts from the others would you) it is going to be very difficult to make sure all are logged that's all. If you can catch the people disobeying the order it is simple to hit them with the big stick. When you can't even go into someone's locker without a warrant (Armed Forces Act 2006) it isn't quite so simple to catch then though.

    Security briefings, training and inspections are still mandatory by the way. Just less frequent since the various teams were scrapped as you say.

    Personally I worry more about what they publish on facebook thank what they say on their mobiles ...
  8. Doc, I don't disagree with the sentiments but I must take exception to the examples cited above as "erosion".

    1. PCSO - yes it is a cheap option to a "real" copper but there are many areas where all you need is someone acting as "guardian" to keep potential troublemakers (often no more than bored kids with nothing to do) in check. My town (in central England) is one such place. We have 2 PCSOs who patrol, watch and report and allow proper coppers to nick criminals - no harm in that.
    2. Teaching Assistants - if used properly they do a lot of the stuff that caused a lot of whingeing from teachers who said they didn't have the time to lay out kit etc AND teach AND mark AND ...
    3. Nurse Practitioners - It doesn't need a doctor to give an injection or to prescribe aspirin or anti-pile cream so why waste the doctor's time doing it?

    As I said, I don't disagree with your principle or for your concerns but if the examples you quoted are indicative of erosion then I would suggest that in all three cases they are not being deployed properly
  9. PCSOs,Teaching Assistants etc are all fine as long as they are as well as and not instead of.
  10. Broadside, you have got coppers who nick criminals? Any chance of cloning them?
  11. It's all gone mad, a senior rate cannot instill discipline with out being rebuked by some snivelling pig who is afraid a sprog will cry about his human rights and demand an investigations! BAH!.....and breath,7 months to go..
  12. The balance of “power†moved significantly when people began appearing in Court for blatantly infringing the Official Secrets Act and being let off. Nothing is particularly secure anymore. The story about WAVE KNIGHT and the pirates was not in the National Interest but nobody will bother finding out who leaked it; and if they do? I’m beginning to look forward to signing my Form 135, for whatever it’s still worth.
  13. yes, it surprised me at the time as well - I know they are as rare as rocking horse wotsit given all the mindless paperwork they are expected to as well but I think there are still some "proper thief takers" around

    Fishhead, your point about PCSOs et al being "as well as" is well taken ... and something has got to be done about UK's drift (or should I say headlong gallop) into more and more paperwork, petty rules and regulations, PC bollox etc - as far as administrative niff naff and trivia is concerned we are getting worse than the Indian Civil Service.
  14. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    ...and that's exactly the attitude that allows them to get away with it, and apathy to breed and fester. So long as you do your duty diligently and expeditiously, the Command are duty-bound to back you up. And for the record, not all complaints from the aforementioned "snivelling pigs" are upheld; in fact, most are dismissed as time wasting and in some cases, where they are found to be at fault then they will face consequential action (false allegations, wasting Police time, etc.), etc.

    Refer to 1SL's command directives, about "moral courage"... :thumbleft:
  15. Qualities of a leader;
    Integrity & Intelligence
    Courage, moral and physical

    JCC 19long time ago!!

  16. If the SRs or JOs working for me were that spineless I'd be looking at actions around their own lack of effectiveness. The provisions don't obstruct effective leadership, but they are frequently used as an excuse for lack of action by those who aren't up to the badges they wear.

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