Sea Time in the RNR

Aldis

Lantern Swinger
Uncle_Albert said:
WarMonger said:
Im sorry but anyone deployed to a ship in any role whatsoever should have a good basic skills set with which to be deployed with, this includes seamanskip skills, NBCD etc etc.

That seems a little extreme. There are numerous specialist roles the RNR slot into onboard ships that don't require this knowledge. In the event of a fire breaking out, I'm sure someone on the regular crew will be able to take charge, rather than hoping the reservist remembers her BSSC from a decade ago.

I'm with U-A on this one. OK, if you are in a compliment billet then an up-to-date BSSC is essential. If you are an augmentee then the 1 day Personal Sea Survival is all you need. As for the seamanship, again it depends on why you are on the ship. I've got through 24 years in the RNR with sea-time every single year - including months at a time - without any real seamanship knowledge.
 

WarMonger

War Hero
Okay Im prepared to give way on seamanship..although how many junior rates are in such specialised roles that they would be exempt from forming part of SSD party whilst onboard..but NBCD and fire fighting, "let one of the crew deal with it".....I obviously take too much pride in what I do.......I dont care what anyone says that attitude isnt acceptable....If you havent got the knowledge go out and get it....and if the RNR isnt giving it to us then it should be.....its about time we stepped out of our nice little cosy bubble and stopped hiding behind our so say part time nature!!!
 

WarMonger

War Hero
trehorn said:
You have obviously never been to sea with a rooky before.

I have only been to sea three time, if you discount the weekends and it still takes a while to find your feet.

Anyone who may have to serve, or even travel on a pussers grey should be given as much opportunity as possible to gain experience.

It also brings us closer to the RN. Little things like understanding instructions given while on board can make a big difference. Like it or not the RN are different to the RNR and all the training in the world wont change that unless its done alongside our counterparts in the RN. Little things like jackspeak, which isnt used as much in the RNR as the RN can confuse newbies and a little sea time here and there can help.

Trehorn

To whom are you addressing this to!!

For the record I have been to sea many times..very often with rookies....maybe you have put it in a better fashion than I have...Simply put I dont think the attitude of "leave it to the crew" is an acceptable one when the shit hits the fan and to take or to leave as a perception from others mainly in the RN to draw their own conclusions from.

Which is why I think going back to my previous postings that the sea weekends that are currently promulgated should remain compulsory for advancement, it should be as much a part of your PTP every year as a Drugs Lecture or Equal Opportunities lecture!
 

Simmo

Midshipman
Time to bring this string back to the top of the list! The subject seems to have strayed a bit, I fully agree with the comments of warmonger.
I'm not fully up to scratch myself on every aspect of seamanship, but can see all of the advantages. You get yourself on a RFA and you won't take part in many evolutions, apart from spud bashing, it's done by the crew. You get yourself on a pussers grey for 2 weeks, you won't be part of a fire party, for instance Kent has a 2 week familiarisation period for the regulars before they can take part. However if a incident was to occur in your vicinity, even not being a member of the duty fire party, you'd want to be able to start to deal with it.
There's lots of talk about losing the R's, excellent, but if you want to be Royal Navy and not Royal Naval Reserve, you need to be up to scratch and hope to make yourself more useful than just carrying an SA80.
Imagine being alongside and you're a qualified Nile Rating, You offer to do the job of a regular Nile Rating for the morning, you've instantly gained respect, proved that you're more useful than was initially anticipated and given someone a break whose being doing the same job day in day out.
Speaking up for Warmonger, he's got a strong point of view and if anyone knows his true identity, they'd know that he knows his stuff, puts more hours in than anyone else I know and is fully respected, not just in Unit, but throughout the RNR.
 

Uncle_Albert

War Hero
There's a big difference between knowing what to do if you're first on the scene in the event of a fire, and being part of the fire party. The first is covered by a BSSC and a one-day top up every so often, the other involves constant training and retraining onboard ship over an extended period of time (c.f. the vessel mentioned earlier in the thread).

If the RN wanted to be able to call upon people to augment their firefighting/damage control/whatever teams onboard ship, they'd train us for it. We have limited time and limited budget to learn our spec, and that should come first. A significant proportion of RNR personnel specialisations aren't even seagoing; what's the benefit of teaching personnel who will never be deployed on a ship how to be a useful member of ship's crew, particularly when they could be using that time/budget to learn the spec the RN wants from them?
 

WarMonger

War Hero
Thats a bit of a tightrope to walk how many other things should we take out of the RNR Curriculum just because people arent sea goers....Swimming Test in NE ..not for me dont go to sea...!!

Besides Im not talking about everyone in the RNR if you read my posts I clearly stated if you are to be deployed on board a ship....my primary concern is GSSR and MW.
 

Uncle_Albert

War Hero
WarMonger said:
Im sorry but anyone deployed to a ship in any role whatsoever should have a good basic skills set with which to be deployed with, this includes seamanskip skills, NBCD etc etc. There is no better way to learn this than at sea on a ship...!!

Did you mean anyone in GSSR or MW, then?
 

WarMonger

War Hero
Yes absolutely.....maybe to clarify..there is a big argument going around in GSSR at the moment about sea time...especially as it is a requirement so say for advancement.....as Force Protection is now the primary role the importance to be genned up on aspects onboard has now diminished to the extent that it now apparently shouldnt affect advancement. weekends.....Despite the fact that force protection is generically onboard alongside and at sea and the weekends are available on RFA RN Ships and MN.

It is something that I feel strongly about that if you are sea going then more attention should be paid to issues that are relevant i.e. NBCD and not just carrying a gun!!...and that if you are not competent in any way shape or form with these other aspects as a sea goer should you be promoted..I know what my view is...!!

As such the sea weekends have been and are a great opportunity to get this experience!
 

Andy_Pandy

Midshipman
WarMonger said:
Okay Im prepared to give way on seamanship..although how many junior rates are in such specialised roles that they would be exempt from forming part of SSD party whilst onboard..but NBCD and fire fighting, "let one of the crew deal with it".....I obviously take too much pride in what I do.......I dont care what anyone says that attitude isnt acceptable....If you havent got the knowledge go out and get it....and if the RNR isnt giving it to us then it should be.....its about time we stepped out of our nice little cosy bubble and stopped hiding behind our so say part time nature!!!

Warmonger I'm sure you and many others (including myself) take pride in being able to do all this stuff to the best of our abilities - BUT on a 2 week ORT with regard to NBCD and Fire fighting any RNR on board a RN war ship at Sea are going to be spare hands told to muster accordingly if the s**t hits the fan. They are not going to be part of the SSFP.

It's not that we can't do the fire fighting its about specific ship knowledge that just can't be learnt to be part of the RN teams. These guys practice over and over to ensure it is a smooth oiled machine ready to react effectively - something we just can't do in 2 weeks.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Andy_Pandy said:
Warmonger I'm sure you and many others (including myself) take pride in being able to do all this stuff to the best of our abilities - BUT on a 2 week ORT with regard to NBCD and Fire fighting any RNR on board a RN war ship at Sea are going to be spare hands told to muster accordingly if the s**t hits the fan. They are not going to be part of the SSFP.

Even spare hands require fire fighting knowledge - boundary cooling, establishing smoke boundaries, suit dresser... while BSSC gives you the basics, seeing the real RN environment is necessary too.

Andy_Pandy said:
It's not that we can't do the fire fighting its about specific ship knowledge that just can't be learnt to be part of the RN teams. These guys practice over and over to ensure it is a smooth oiled machine ready to react effectively - something we just can't do in 2 weeks.

As a certified (certifiable too!) old-git who cut his teeth on the sweepers of 10MCM, I'm of the opinion that going to sea in any capacity will give an RNR far more experience than can be written in his/her taskbook. Its not just about doing the job in a ship board environment, its also about living on board, getting on with people and being a matelot. The focus on pseudo objective "tasks" in task books misses the fact that the RN/RNR is much more than this. In my opinion, everyone should get to sea and experience life on a Pussers Grey!

Granted, in two weeks you're never going to be part of SSFP/SSEP or whatever its called, but knowing what's happening, and what to do if called upon is invaluable.
 

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