Sea Harrier FA2 and Lynx Mk7

Discussion in 'The Fleet Air Arm' started by MustangTC, Jan 7, 2009.

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  1. What happened to the Sea Harrier FA2 when it was replaced by the GR7/9? Am I right in thinking the RAF have them?

    Also has the Lynx mk7 been superceeded by the Apache yet?
  2. Uhmmmmmm bit behind the times shippers.

    FA2's have been sold for scrap/ebay or gate guardians. Lynx mk7's still very active in AAC and 847 Naval Air Sqdn
  3. Hehe yeah, i'm trying to get my history down.

    It's just that in an Officers Information Presentation a month ago i'm sure the Officer presenting asked us if Sea Harriers still flew from aircraft carriers. Someone said no and he said that they do but under RAF badges.

    Perhaps i'm missing something? Was there a Harrier between the FA2 and the GR7?
  4. Yep Oct 08 Lusty at the Pool :thumright:
  6. 'sfunny, I could have sworn it was 800 that were flying the SHAR off INVINC for the 2004 partial CAG in June/July/Aug- must have been 801 I suppose if 800 decommissioned in March. Bloody noisy accommodation- 2GP, just aft of the ramp- like an express train coming over your head when they took off. As for the chock heads moving chains around when you're trying to get your head down...... :thumright:
  7. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    There are no Sea Harriers in service at all, at least not flying with the UK armed forces. The RN have one unit in Joint Force Harrier now known as Naval Strike Wing (formed from 800 NAS and the manpower that would have formed 801 NAS if it had ever reformed!) who operate the Harrier GR9 which is an RAF owned aircraft.

    See here for a lot of out of date information:
  8. Only single seat Harrier GR9s (there may be one or 2 GR7s still awaiting upgrade) and Harrier T12s remain in service with 3(F) and IV(AC) Sqns RAF, and the Naval Strike Wing (NSW) at RAF Cottesmore. In addition, 20(R) Sqn acts as the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) for both communities.

    Originally, the RN was to have formed 2 sqns, 800 and 801. However, for a variety of reasons it was decided to have a single enlarged NSW. 3, IV, 20 and NSW all form Joint Force Harrier (JFH), which falls under the operational command of HQ 1 Group, RAF.

    Stand by now for the usual RAF conspiracy theorists to emerge from the woodwork!

    Ignoring the early P1127 and Kestrel, the Harrier lineage is as follows:

    First Generation:

    Harrier GR1. Original RAF variant, subsequently upgraded to GR1a standard with a bigger engine.
    Harrier T2/T2a. Trainer variant of the above.
    AV-8A. USMC version of GR1.
    TAV-8A. USMC trainer.
    AV-8C. Slightly upgraded AV-8A.
    AV-8S Matador. Spanish version of AV-8A bought via US. Subsequently flogged to Thailand but no longer airworthy I believe.
    TAV-8S. Spanish trainer.

    Harrier GR3. GR1a upgraded with Laser Ranger Marked Target Seeker (LRMTS) in the nose and RWR.
    Harrier T4. Trainer variant of the above although some lacked LRMTS. Also used by the RN.
    Harrier T7/8: RN trainer variants.

    Harrier GR6. Proposed BAC ‘Big Wing’ Harrier incorporating AV-8B style wing onto GR3 airframe. Silly idea so GR5 ordered instead.

    Consider the above as Hunters that could land vertically in terms of technology.

    Sea Harrier FRS1. Original RN variant. Based on the GR1 airframe with new forward fuselage incorporating Blue Fox radar and raised cockpit.
    Sea Harrier FRS51. Export version sold to India,
    Sea Harrier FA2. Upgraded FRS1 (although some were new build) incorporating excellent Blue Vixen pulse Doppler radar and AMRAAM.

    Excellent radar/missile combination hampered by poor endurance and a 1960s airframe.

    Second Generation:

    These Harrier II variants were all completely redesigned and in reality a different aircraft entirely to First gen aircraft. Bigger wing, much greater payload and range, vastly improved avionics.

    AV-8B: USMC version. Exported to Italy and Spain.
    TAV-8B: Trainer variant of above.
    AV-8B+: AV-8B with APG-65 radar (from early model FA-18) installed into the nose in place of angle rate bombing/laser targeting system. Most USMC jets are now at this standard although it does compromise A-G capabilities in some respects. Likewise, Spanish and Italian AV-8Bs also upgraded to this standard.

    Harrier GR5. Interim RAF aircraft, procured largely to build experience on new type.
    Harrier GR7. Definitive Second Generation RAF type introducing excellent night vision targeting aids and the Zeus EW system. Subsequently flown by the RN.
    Harrier GR7a. As above with more powerful engine.
    Harrier T10. Trainer variant of GR7.
    Harrier GR9. Externally similar to the GR7, the GR9 is the latest upgrade incorporating open system avionics and a variety of weapon and system option upgrades.
    Harrier T12. Trainer variant of GR9.

    Alternatively, google is your friend!

    Best of luck!

  9. chockheads doing chains - youre having a laugh arent you - wouldnt know one end of a waterwall nozzle let alone a technical item like a chain lashing -

    no i think you'll find the chockhead l/h used to move it onto a random spot (or rather within 10 feet), shout "lash it down".

    then they would perch thier ar5e on the tractor and watch the boys bending over whilst lashing the beast down, all the time stroking the towing arm. :thumright:
  10. like I say, I was trying to get my head down :thumright:
  11. CT

    having been out of the loop over here in yankeeland, we dont have any fixed wing at all, yet we have ratings working with

    In my last few days, I worked at MASU, putting some mods on the FA2, etc but thats about it. Was boring an a bit nebulous.......but as Deadloss had closed a yr earlier, had to go somewhere local for the reamining yr!
  12. The Radar didn't work so well. The AIM-120s just seemed to wander off for a bit......

    Sort of....Zoomies do like to try and look like crabs, Ray Ban aviators and silly salutes and all.......

    Only the RM have so far been able to fit 9 booties on an Apache, and the winching and loadlifting have been a bit of a snag.
  13. Rubbish. The Blue Vixen/AMRAAM integration was excellent.
  14. Really? My oppos in the Blue Vixen workshop seemed to think the ballast weight had more chance of tracking in TWS.....
  15. Blue Vixen was for a while better than the F3's radar and the FA2 had a fully integrated AMRAAM capability which the F3 initially lacked. Overall, the Blue Vixen was considered better than the APG-73 fitted to the FA-18C/D.

    It's just a shame such an excellent sensor/missile combination was strapped to a 1960s jet with the endurance of a cessna.

    As an aside, Blue Vixen formed the technical foundation for the Typhoon's Captor radar .

  16. Are you telling me the FMCW (FMICW) radar (Foxhunter) was made to work with a pulse doppler system?? Oh yeah, they stuck a surface acoustic wave emitter into it to make it a hybrid......AOP (eyyyyyupp) FSP...
    I still giggle when I remember the 5 sqn line lads showing off their "Blue Circle" radar, oh to be a pinkie on that watch!!!

    (In case you're a pinkie whos' clicky bed/uckers board/tea urn has caught fire and you are in need of an insomnia cure this guy has done all the work for you.... )
  17. I'm saying that the F3 performance, coupled an upgraded Foxhunter, 2 brains, 2 sets of eyes, AMRAAM, ASRAAM and JTIDS eventually overtook the excellent FA2/Blue Vixen/AMRAAM combination as an all round package.

    The FA2 was due to get a limited upgrade which included ASRAAM and JTIDS but I don't think it would have made a major difference simply due to the airframe limitations.

    The F3 today is actually a pretty useful piece of kit.

  18. As far as I know, at least as far as the Navy are concerned, the green Lynx isn't going to be replaced with the Apache. Since TOW went out of service they're operating more as reconnaisance and artillery spotting for 29 regt RA and occassionally transporting booties. Apparently there are rumours that they'll be getting hellfires in he future to replace the TOW...

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