Scottish Independence

[Nutty]

The stories were published 4 months ago but the subjects are still, in even more so, current.

Whilst browsing thru the 21st April 2007 copy of “The Economist†by their columnist “Charlemagne†concerning Scottish Independence which produces some angles which I had not thought of and research into the Possibility of Scotland being after independence a member of the EC.

Scotland

The SNP are strongly pushing the line Independent Scotland in Europe.

1. Under the current arrangements the population of Scotland are no more in favour than the English of EC membership being a mere 12%.

2. If Scotland left the member State i.e UK under the EC Regulations it(Scotland) would no longer be a member and would have to apply for membership. The membership being held by the member state the UK, would continue. This has been confirmed by the EC Commission

3. All 27 Member Countries would have to approve that application.

4. Some states like Spain have their own problems with secessionists like the Basque and Catalans and are unlikely to do anything to encourage smaller independent states in the EC may even oppose membership.

5. Several countries including France are obliged by their constitution to hold a referendum on a new member joining.

6. Scotland would be leaving one Union to just join another Union.

No doubt Scotland would, at some point, gain entry but how much would it have to give away, lets say in Fishing rights to get the Spanish vote for instance.

Food for discussion.

Another article of general interest about the RN also appeared in this copy.

RN


Nutty

 

[dunkers]

I believe it is also in EU rules that national borders are now fixed? (Mainly in order to stop EU member states trying to claim land from other EU states for themselves e.g. as Germany historically did in Alsace-Lorraine.)
Scottish independence would create a new (sovereign) border which would contravene this.

I really hope it doesn't happen.

 

[Potential_Officer]

The current arrangement is, well not exactly working, but the best that could be hoped for whilst keeping all sides reasonably happy, Scotland has independance in some areas, whilst at the same time remaining part of the United Kingdom for others.

The second article's conclusion of lots of small gunships in some ways I agree with, but at the same time think that is a shortsighted approach. What is needed, and the Navy will never get, is both, 30 FFGs (plus the full order of 45s) and small gunships to work in the current Mid-East theartre. One can but dream eh!

 

[Nutty]

The current arrangement is, well not exactly working, but the best that could be hoped for whilst keeping all sides reasonably happy, Scotland has independance in some areas, whilst at the same time remaining part of the United Kingdom for others.

The second article's conclusion of lots of small gunships in some ways I agree with, but at the same time think that is a shortsighted approach. What is needed, and the Navy will never get, is both, 30 FFGs (plus the full order of 45s) and small gunships to work in the current Mid-East theartre. One can but dream eh!

P-O

I think the writer was a little tongue in cheek and referring to the days of the Old Empire when Pax Britannica would dispatch a gunboat to points of trouble to quell the locals.

Nutty

 

[Potential_Officer]

Pah long day at work, sarcasm just cannot be read, I thought he meant something along the lines of a well armed, fast, small draught ship.

 

[dunkers]

... but the best that could be hoped for whilst keeping all sides reasonably happy...

An agreement that tries to please everyone would please nobody.

The current arrangement is keeping the majority of people happy.

 

[danny]

i think we should apply to the lottory regeneration fund. for a grant to regenerate hadrians wall. keep them all penned in

 

[geoffg]

As the PM is Scottish, it would be more appropriate for England to apply for independance
geoff(ers) :nemo:

 

[danny]

As the PM is Scottish, it would be more appropriate for England to apply for independance
geoff(ers) :nemo:

As long as he goes back with you. We dont want him down here.

 

[finknottle]

Same old shite different day =) get used to it.

 

[higthepig]

We will all be part of Europe bye and bye, theres no stopping it, unless you vote for the BNP, that is your only option I`m afraid, and as no-one will vote for the BNP, best start to learn speaking German.

 

[oberon]

As the PM is Scottish, it would be more appropriate for England to apply for independance
geoff(ers) :nemo:

As long as he goes back with you. We dont want him down here.

So was Tony Blair!! Born in Edinburgh of Scottish (Tory) parents, educated in Edinburgh at the Eton of Scotland. So lets get over the idea that a Scottish PM is something new! We've got a German queen for God's sake!

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

My understanding of the SNP position is that they claim that they would automatically be de facto members of the EU by reason of their former union with an existing member state. I think this is wishful thinking, it would also be slightly absurd to leave the United Kingdom only to become subject to Community law and the acquis communitaire, which would limit her sovereignty. If Scotland does declare UDI and doesn't obtain EU membership, it will be a good opportunity for the rest of the Kingdom to observe the economic, social and legal impact of this action, which may alter people's opinions of the supposed benefits of leaving the EU ourselves. If she did we would also have to have border controls and Scots would no longer benefit from Schengen.

Where the SNP are very naive is on the issue of EU access rights to her fisheries and indeed the whole issue of maritime sovereignty, which in the light of UK and in particular EU maritime boundaries recognised under international law might become subject to a separate dispute. Will Scotland assert her claim rights through the use of force (as Iceland was forced to do outside the 30 mile coastal limit) if her claims of maritime sovereignty are contested?

 

[dunkers]

Will Scotland assert her claim rights through the use of force ... ?

With what navy? Now there's a question.

 

[finknottle]

It's not Scotland that is asserting claims it's that bunch of self-serving wasters the SNP.

 

[safewalrus]

Ah Fink' a true socialist I see - never listen to anybody just shoot yer mouth off about what you believe to be right cos it's part of your own itinery!

Actually to a certain extent your right 'scotland doesn't speak its the people who all the moaning and admit it you've been blaming the English for every little woe since that infamous union back just after the Virgin Queen (?) died! Pity most of yer problems were (as now with the present Scot dumping on ye) of your own making! But you gotta blame somebody eh! After all the Scots are NEVER wrong are they........?.....? :toilet:

 

[dunkers]

Can we have that in English please, Walrus :dwarf:

 

[aberdeenlad]

Ah Fink' a true socialist I see - never listen to anybody just shoot yer mouth off about what you believe to be right cos it's part of your own itinery!

Actually to a certain extent your right 'scotland doesn't speak its the people who all the moaning and admit it you've been blaming the English for every little woe since that infamous union back just after the Virgin Queen (?) died! Pity most of yer problems were (as now with the present Scot dumping on ye) of your own making! But you gotta blame somebody eh! After all the Scots are NEVER wrong are they........?.....? :toilet:

Hi Safewalrus
That’s a very interesting comment, I think you should do some homework, most Scots don’t want independence. Like England Wales and Ireland it's the minority that moan and blame everybody else, the media picks up some small complaint and blows it up out of proportion. As I have said before and will say again MOST SCOTS DONT WANT INDEPENDENCE, we are not anti English. Oh and we are wrong now and again just like everybody else.

 

[Nutty]

Ah Fink' a true socialist I see - never listen to anybody just shoot yer mouth off about what you believe to be right cos it's part of your own itinery!

Actually to a certain extent your right 'scotland doesn't speak its the people who all the moaning and admit it you've been blaming the English for every little woe since that infamous union back just after the Virgin Queen (?) died! Pity most of yer problems were (as now with the present Scot dumping on ye) of your own making! But you gotta blame somebody eh! After all the Scots are NEVER wrong are they........?.....? :toilet:

Hi Safewalrus
That’s a very interesting comment, I think you should do some homework, most Scots don’t want independence. Like England Wales and Ireland it's the minority that moan and blame everybody else, the media picks up some small complaint and blows it up out of proportion. As I have said before and will say again MOST SCOTS DONT WANT INDEPENDENCE, we are not anti English. Oh and we are wrong now and again just like everybody else.

So why do the SNP have a majority in the Scotish Assembly or are we going to say the majority of people who voted did not vote SNP or that they do not hold an overall majority etc.

What they do have is the Moral High ground cos the jocks put more of them in office than any of the other parties however you would like to dress it up.

Nutty

 

[KLNA-Cessna-Jockey]

Course the Scots don't want full independence - if they did it would financially cripple them as we (England) would hopefully stop subsidising them with our money.

They would have to pay for their own NHS, their own Education and University system, etc and would have to increase taxes considerably to maintain a status quo.

Even if they did go independent, I dont think we down here in England would see much of that financial saving back in our pockets though.

And who says if they did go it alone they would want to join the EU?