School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discuss

slim

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Time for every child to have to sit both English and Maths GCSEs. The failure rate in these subjects would show how well a school was teaching them or not as the case may be. Without the inclusion of these core subjects a string of GCSEs is worthless.
 

dunkers

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

slim said:
Time for every child to have to sit both English and Maths GCSEs. The failure rate in these subjects would show how well a school was teaching them or not as the case may be. Without the inclusion of these core subjects a string of GCSEs is worthless.

They are compulsory, I think? (In Scotland it is compulsory to sit English, Maths, a foreign language, science subjects and arts subjects.)
 

trufflehunter

Midshipman
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Yep. At the moment it's compulsory in England to sit English Language and English Literature, Mathematics and some configuration of science subjects. The requirement for a modern language went 4 years ago.
 

chris

Midshipman
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

its a stupid idea really.

not everybody who left school at 16 is a chav or waste of space.
some people just arent made for sitting down and doing paperwork.

hell, i bet half the people who are RM would cause as much as hell as possible, if somebody forced them to quit and get a desk job.

i did rather well in my GCSEs, but i didnt stay on simply because it drives me nuts.
if i had to stay for another 2 years i would go completely mental.
forcing people to stay on till 18 would probably have the same result as getting the entire lot of SAS and SBS to sit down and write out the bible from cover to cover, everyday, for 6 hours, 5 days a week for a couple of years.

of course you get some waste of space people who drop out, but equally, i wonder how many of the best british soldiers stayed on at school till 18, and a few succesful bussiness men left at 16 too. not to mention sports people, actors and such.

its wrong to punish people for not being academic. and when would it stop?
in 20 years it could be our kids being forced to do a university degree before they can leave education.
and of course, if every kid does A levels, they become worthless almost.

and all those people who say it keeps trouble makers in touch, thats the opposite.
kids are more troublesome if you force them to do what they dont want to do. all those chavs being forced to go to school would just cause more trouble in our towns after school because they are so pissed off.
 

slim

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

chris said:
its a stupid idea really.

not everybody who left school at 16 is a chav or waste of space.
some people just arent made for sitting down and doing paperwork.

.

I agree with you Chris, most 16 year old kids are normal intelligent members of society. It's the odd 10% or so who give the rest a bad name. I left school at 15 and it was the happiest day of my life, paperwork was not and is still not for me. I was however, literate, numerate and employable and started work the Monday after leaving school. two and a half years later I joined the Navy. In those days unemployment was not an option, no benefits were available to youngsters. I re-entered the education system at age 34 and sat English & Maths at GCE O level. From there the Navy allowed me day release and two years later I gained an ONC qualification. Looking back I wish that I had gone back into the education system earlier. However I have enjoyed my life and feel that for many youngsters work is better than school. The desk is not for everyone.
However for youngsters who are unemployable because they are illiterate, I think that they may have to be coerced into becoming literate if they are ever to become useful members of society and escape the benefit culture.
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Although my earlier post was a bit tongue in cheek, there was an underlying grain of truth in it, but on the whole I must agree with Slim and Chris. I was a "Grammar School boy" in the late forties, and doing OK, nothing brilliant, but I was one of the youngest in my year and keeping up. The changeover from Matric to School Cert had an arbitrary date 14 days before my birthday so I was expected to repeat the previous year's work in order to take the new exam. At 15, I didn't really want to know, and, being Festival of Britain year, in London, jobs were not difficult to come by, so I continued my Summer holiday temporary job until I was 16, then signed on, a decision that I have never regretted. I've been through life with nil academic qualifications, but a good grounding in the basics of English and maths, with a smattering of Latin, French, and the sciences thrown in. What used to be called a standard education. Had I stayed on -and with that extra year, who knows what I could have achieved ? But, I saw it through the eyes of a 15 year old, and my life has turned out to be happy, moderately successful, financially secure, and a lot of fun, so, I repeat, I have no regrets. Writing CVs when I left the RN and in subsequent job applications, I used to put "Schools Certificate standard" in the education space and rely on my own ability to convince a prospective employer that I knew which end was up at interview. Probably wouldn't work now, but I'm not looking for any more jobs (unless our dear leader retrospectively puts the retirement age up to 72)

2BM
 

safewalrus

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

didn't this used to be known as "National Service"? the compulsory education of 17 to 18 year olds? LETS DO IT! there's some good JNCO's out there who'd do a good job of sorting a few of these scroats out if given half a chance!!!
 

mikh

MIA
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I work for a provider of Work Based Learing offering apprenticeship in the motor industry, part of all apprenticeships are Keyskills, comprising of Communications (English to older uns) Applications of Numbers (maths) and Information Communication Technologies. The amount of apprentices who start with us who have an exemtion from keyskill exams due to GCSE passes in math & english is quite high, but when we ask these same appretices to string a sentance together, or complete some fairly simple maths for completion of the portfolio aspect of their keyskills the majority struggle (please note a grade 'E' in maths or english attract an exemption from the level 1 keyskills exams). We have even had apprentices with grade c passes who do not know how to work out basic percentages let alone VAT without the use of a calculator. Yet year after year we are told that school results are getting better and better. I can only surnise that the result are getting better due to the lowering of standards. I just wish I was on the same mony as a cabinet minister so i could take my son out of the state education system.
 

sara21

Lantern Swinger
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

safewalrus said:
didn't this used to be known as "National Service"? the compulsory education of 17 to 18 year olds? LETS DO IT! there's some good JNCO's out there who'd do a good job of sorting a few of these scroats out if given half a chance!!!

Yey for that man! Let’s bring back National Service- it might even instill civic/national pride in the people that seem to be intent on ruining what was once a great country.

I have to admit sometimes, when amongst my international counterparts, I feel embarrassed to be likened to the drunk, scantily clad, ‘game’ hussy they akin as quintessentially British.

I fear the worst for my generation.
 
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

trufflehunter said:
You're right there flag wagger, more's the pity. Every year topics are deleted from syllabi and grade boundaries are lowered. Would you believe that when i did it the score required on the higher tier paper to acheive a C at maths GCSE was 27%? That was the first double page of a 14 page paper. Not only is this political bs failing industry, it's failing those able students whose acheivements are masked by low grade boundaries. What's the advantage in scoring 100% when 80% will get you the same grade?

Standards have definately dropped. When I was at school in the 1970s a mark below 50% = FAIL for 'O' Level and in 'A' levels only the top 40% of those who took the exam were allowed to pass - you had to be in the top 5% to get an A grade. It seems to be the same at some "universities" with students being able to graduate with a Upper Second with a scoring of 30%. In London University anything under 34% is a fail grade - you need 60% to get a 2.1 and 70% to get a First. In effect some degrees are worthless!
 

Jimmy_Green

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

dunkers said:
slim said:
Time for every child to have to sit both English and Maths GCSEs. The failure rate in these subjects would show how well a school was teaching them or not as the case may be. Without the inclusion of these core subjects a string of GCSEs is worthless.

They are compulsory, I think? (In Scotland it is compulsory to sit English, Maths, a foreign language, science subjects and arts subjects.)

In England, English is a foreign language for so many now.
 

sara21

Lantern Swinger
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

^^^^^

I think that you will find that many universities operate on the 85point scale, and that 70% you suggest is actually 70/85 = 83% (or there about).

In my dept( Architecture) only 2/60 graduated with a first!

I think you will find it very rare, amongst Red Brick Universities, for people to be scoring in excess of 78.

I do agree that GCSE and A-Levels are pointless- I left school at 18 with 4 A grades and didn't know how to do long division or how to punctuate correctly. Grammar is a real struggle for me and I blame that on not being taught the fundamentals early on in my schooling.
 

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