School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discuss

sara21

Lantern Swinger
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

The policy set out by the Gov defines education very loosely- Although the age will be increased to 18 for those who must attend compulsory schooling the Gov aims to broaden our current statutory education system.

To be defined as 'in full time education' the youngster must be getting some kind of formal training...This extends from formal exams such as A-levels, GNVQ to apprenticeships.

I think Tony and his pals have realised that many 16 year olds are not getting the help they need to continue any kind of education!

What would you prefer 16 year olds who are legally obliged to attend school, college, or work, or 16 year olds who are free to do whatever they damn like! I think that any measure which could see 16-18 year olds out of bed, off the streets and into training should be applauded! The Germans and Dutch have done it for years.

I do think however that too many people are being encouraged to go to university to study for degrees that will not improve their chances of finding skilled employment.
 

Darkershadeofblu

Lantern Swinger
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

As indicated previously this gimmick will only delay the inevitable ie the date that people commence work. As there will be a general election within the next few years it will also allow the govt to claim that fewer people are on the dole or unemployed (cynical view of course!)
 

sara21

Lantern Swinger
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

snapdragon said:
. Kids leave education at 18 (or 20, or 22 and so on...) and have no idea how to work. You see it in jobs that require many years of education. 3rd year medical students and junior doctors always appear to struggle with working in the way that doctors have to. I'm not saying they weren't studying hard and working hard before being employed, but it must be a shock to them to have that level of responsibility when all your life you've been taught how to learn and nothing more. Give kids a sense of worth! Teach them something worth knowing instead of giving them babysitters.


I think that this is a parents responsibility- My parents had me slaving at 14 to earn my keep- no job no pocket money! I have worked all through my degree and masters not through choice but through sense of responsibility. I think the Gov are blamed for too much, parents need to stop being so precious and send their kids to do a hard days graft.
 
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

If continuing the length of the education system will improve what we get out of it then it is worth considering, however, most of those who stay on WANT to stay on and therefore go on to achieve.

If you make everyone stay on, the "problem child" will be in all the classes disrupting those that want to learn, thus reduce the likelihood of achieving the same level of success.

If we adopted a process like the americans, where you dont progreess to the next year until you meet the required standard, perhaps this would let the achievers go on to achieve, as they do, and let those who struggle remain with those who are have the same academic abilities.

Another point to consider - with all the government cutbacks, where will the money be coming from to increase the amount of classrooms, equipment and teaching staff to teach the greater numbers of students in schools.
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

TattooDog said:
If it only applies to formal education, then it's pretty unworkable and barking.

However, I believe it also includes work based training. If so, then I assume that any training carried out in the forces would be included.

Working as I sometimes do in the Further Education Sector I believe you are correct, there are already places available for vocational training within Colleges of FE for 14 - 18 year olds and there is further investment in this sector. By full time education I believe the Gov are including all forms of Vocational training in FE, I am prepared to be corrected if anyone knows different but to keep students in school would be a U turn on the previously stated ambition and would I believe put considerable strain on the system, many have pointed out some of the issues above.
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Seems like a good basic idea. They could extend it and insist on all the 16 - 18 year olds leaving home and living in some sort of supervised communal environment with their dedicated teachers instructing them in basic hygiene, personal skills, care of clothing etc., in addition to the extra schooling. Could even throw in a little communal supervised walking to remove the stoop from their shoulders. Then they could all dress the same to remove peer envy, with suitably applied minor punishments for all those who did not conform. A little help from a band might help them with co-ordination on their supervised walks. Spare time could be taken up by doing useful jobs like litter picking, graffiti removal etc.
I'm sure some bright individual could come up with a suitable title for this new scheme.
Hang on - I've just thought of one!






National Service!!
 
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Heaven forbid 2BM,

Are you condoning a society where people may have self respect and possibly respect for others - one where someone can give to society as opposed to take, an increase in the number of personnel in the armed services.

You are brave - Prime Minister Blair, recommend this man for a Knighthood (I understand they're not for sale anymore!)
 

sara21

Lantern Swinger
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Just heard on the BBC that one way the government plans to make teenagers comply and continue their education is to revoke their right to a pre-18 drivers license! That is madness.
No proof you are in education=no drivers license
 

trufflehunter

Midshipman
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Being a 17 year old, finishing off A-levels at the moment, and looking to see what i can do with 'em, my immediate response is that this is gonna de-value them even more. Forcing even more people into uni by the back door (they'll need those degrees because they'll be the only academic qualification worth having any more)
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Re-reading the Torygraph article quoted somewhere above, I find the following nugget:

"Some 330,000 teenagers will be affected by the plan, which is aimed at tackling the problem of an unskilled workforce. "

I've just move my kids from the UK education system to the Canadian; my eldest lad was Year 6 back in the UK and therefore took his SATS at the end of last year - being a slightly switched on lad he achieved Level 5s (well above the level for his age) in both Maths and English. Due to a wrinkle in school admission ages, he's now in Grade 6 in Canada (i.e. repeating the year) and so far his marks demonstrate that he's below provincial average. The area where he's demonstrating weakness is in the fundamentals, knowing how to write English using correct grammar, and non-simple sentences, knowing his times tables, and knowing simple addition, multiplication, subtraction and division. While he may be ahead of the game against the UK curriculum, over here he's now playing catch-up.

Each year we hear reports of increasing pass marks in both GCSE and A-Level; each year we hear of industry bodies complaining about illiterate and innumerate people with GCSEs, A-Levels and degrees question whether the standards have improved or whether pass marks have been diluted and each year we hear a robust defence from educators and politicians saying how dare industry criticise and accuse the establishment of grade inflation. I've now seen it with my own eyes - if a child with level 5 in the UK SATS is below average here in Ontario, then I suspect that grade inflation has been happening for some time and that the UK educational establishment really is turning out people ill-qualified for work.
 

trufflehunter

Midshipman
Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

You're right there flag wagger, more's the pity. Every year topics are deleted from syllabi and grade boundaries are lowered. Would you believe that when i did it the score required on the higher tier paper to acheive a C at maths GCSE was 27%? That was the first double page of a 14 page paper. Not only is this political bs failing industry, it's failing those able students whose acheivements are masked by low grade boundaries. What's the advantage in scoring 100% when 80% will get you the same grade?
 

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