School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discuss

In today's Times (12 January 2007) it is reported that Brown, if he wins the leadership contest of the Labour Party following Blair's resignation later this year, is committed to raising the school leaving age to 18 with exceptions only for underage mothers [but not underage dads] and children looking after disabled/elderly parents [a disgrace in itself - why should they be penalised for doing good to the community?]... There may be a loophole in that children may only leave earlier if they are going on to a recognised training/education scheme such as an apprenticeship.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,174-2543473,00.html

Given that the RN still appears to rely heavily on recruiting 16 & 17 year olds as ratings, does this mean a steep decline in recruitment or a return to Junior (AB) Training Establishments with a year plus training combined with extra schooling to get round this obvious difficulty?

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I am SO glad I got out of the secondary education system when I did (recently) if this is the kind of bollocks they are coming up with.

It was bad enough going to school until the age of 16 with people who had absolutely no interest in their education and whose only desire was to cause the maximum trouble possible. (At 16, most of the wasters left.) Forcing non-academic teenagers through school will only further put them off education - they might even get pregnant to get out of it. :roll:

Perhaps the RN could take on the brightest 16 year olds and put them through A-levels/Highers at the same time as giving them naval training? (Had I had that opportunity I may well have opted for it.) I certainly think it would benefit everyone - the RN and its recruits.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I can see the reasoning behind this thinking, however how do the government intend forcing these 16 to 18 year olds to attend. It would be nice to think this extension of education would keep the 16-18 year old Chavs off the streets, but most of them have been truanting from early teens anyway. Perhaps a good outcome will be that at least it will stop them collecting benefits until they reach the age of 18.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

And in today's Torygraph (12 January 2007) there's a story with the headline School leaving age goes up to 18 that states it is not a proposal, but will be in force with effect from next year's secondadry school intake.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I think it stinks. It's a ploy to keep the kids off the streets and nothing more. My lad couldn't wait to get out of the system and join up and, having been home for Christmas and had a chance to catch up with school mates who are at college, he has absolutely no regrets whatsoever. The government need to accept that todays education system fails a great many of the pupils for a variety of reasons, and they need to provide realistic alternatives, ie make aprrenticeships alot easier to find etc. Also if they are going to make education to 18 compulsory how is that going to work in certain isolated communities. Where we are in the Isles of Scilly there is no further education establishment here, our kids move to the mainland at 16 to continue their education, either boarding or in digs. To make it compulsory that they live away from home at 16 must contravene their human rights!!!!!!

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Your final sentence is, I think is the real reason. Leaving school at 18 means less people on the dole! So bringing down the unemployed at a stroke :twisted:

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I think a more sensible approach to the education problem would be to allow all children to ,leave school at age 15 if they had an offer of gainful employment. There would be a proviso that they be required attend a college of further education one day a week if they had failed to gain GCSE English and maths at grade C or above until this standard was achieved.
For those normally leaving at 16 unable to find work, they would be required to attend 3 days a week until English and Maths standards to GCSE had been attained. Those refusing would be entitled to no benefits.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Bloody barking! I don't think half the kids around here want to be in school at 16. They'd rather have a job earning money (and, incidentally, contributing to their eventual pension and current medical needs). Are they saying that the education system is in such a bad state that children need an extra 2 years to learn what they should have known at 15? Or is it that there aren't enough jobs they are educated for and that can easily be filled by migrant labour? In the meantime, the Parliamentary fu**wits are happily notching up the retirement age.

Is this the same Government that is thinking of bringing the voting age down to 16?

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

If it only applies to formal education, then it's pretty unworkable and barking.

However, I believe it also includes work based training. If so, then I assume that any training carried out in the forces would be included.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I like Slim's last point - no education, no benefits.

Is this just another way of making bank of mum and dad continue to pay for kids for longer just to reduce the benefits, and as mentioned above the unemployment figures.

If bank of mum and dad have to pay out for longer, will we get to pay less in taxes for the money we're saving the government - Yeah right, there goes another flying pig !!!

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

No matter what the government what is the betting that the Chav society on permenant benefits get even more money from the tax payer?

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Don't like the idea of it. Yet again, society giving kids the impression that academic education is the only thing worth bothering with. Kids leave education at 18 (or 20, or 22 and so on...) and have no idea how to work. You see it in jobs that require many years of education. 3rd year medical students and junior doctors always appear to struggle with working in the way that doctors have to. I'm not saying they weren't studying hard and working hard before being employed, but it must be a shock to them to have that level of responsibility when all your life you've been taught how to learn and nothing more. Give kids a sense of worth! Teach them something worth knowing instead of giving them babysitters.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

The policy set out by the Gov defines education very loosely- Although the age will be increased to 18 for those who must attend compulsory schooling the Gov aims to broaden our current statutory education system.

To be defined as 'in full time education' the youngster must be getting some kind of formal training...This extends from formal exams such as A-levels, GNVQ to apprenticeships.

I think Tony and his pals have realised that many 16 year olds are not getting the help they need to continue any kind of education!

What would you prefer 16 year olds who are legally obliged to attend school, college, or work, or 16 year olds who are free to do whatever they damn like! I think that any measure which could see 16-18 year olds out of bed, off the streets and into training should be applauded! The Germans and Dutch have done it for years.

I do think however that too many people are being encouraged to go to university to study for degrees that will not improve their chances of finding skilled employment.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

As indicated previously this gimmick will only delay the inevitable ie the date that people commence work. As there will be a general election within the next few years it will also allow the govt to claim that fewer people are on the dole or unemployed (cynical view of course!)

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

I think that this is a parents responsibility- My parents had me slaving at 14 to earn my keep- no job no pocket money! I have worked all through my degree and masters not through choice but through sense of responsibility. I think the Gov are blamed for too much, parents need to stop being so precious and send their kids to do a hard days graft.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

If continuing the length of the education system will improve what we get out of it then it is worth considering, however, most of those who stay on WANT to stay on and therefore go on to achieve.

If you make everyone stay on, the "problem child" will be in all the classes disrupting those that want to learn, thus reduce the likelihood of achieving the same level of success.

If we adopted a process like the americans, where you dont progreess to the next year until you meet the required standard, perhaps this would let the achievers go on to achieve, as they do, and let those who struggle remain with those who are have the same academic abilities.

Another point to consider - with all the government cutbacks, where will the money be coming from to increase the amount of classrooms, equipment and teaching staff to teach the greater numbers of students in schools.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Working as I sometimes do in the Further Education Sector I believe you are correct, there are already places available for vocational training within Colleges of FE for 14 - 18 year olds and there is further investment in this sector. By full time education I believe the Gov are including all forms of Vocational training in FE, I am prepared to be corrected if anyone knows different but to keep students in school would be a U turn on the previously stated ambition and would I believe put considerable strain on the system, many have pointed out some of the issues above.

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Seems like a good basic idea. They could extend it and insist on all the 16 - 18 year olds leaving home and living in some sort of supervised communal environment with their dedicated teachers instructing them in basic hygiene, personal skills, care of clothing etc., in addition to the extra schooling. Could even throw in a little communal supervised walking to remove the stoop from their shoulders. Then they could all dress the same to remove peer envy, with suitably applied minor punishments for all those who did not conform. A little help from a band might help them with co-ordination on their supervised walks. Spare time could be taken up by doing useful jobs like litter picking, graffiti removal etc.
I'm sure some bright individual could come up with a suitable title for this new scheme.
Hang on - I've just thought of one!






National Service!!

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

Heaven forbid 2BM,

Are you condoning a society where people may have self respect and possibly respect for others - one where someone can give to society as opposed to take, an increase in the number of personnel in the armed services.

You are brave - Prime Minister Blair, recommend this man for a Knighthood (I understand they're not for sale anymore!)

 

Re: School leaving age may be raised to 18 by 2013... Discus

YES PLEASE WINDY!

No, not the knighthood, the other bit of your post!

2BM