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SCC HQ: Beasting is banned

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I think that there is a world of difference between dealing with teenagers at a Cadet Unit fallen in, and those of the roles of a DO on a Ship. The Situation is different, the requirements are different.

For example on the Cadets training ship Royalist, differing examples of discipline are used, leading by example, encouragement to get out of the pit and climb the masts are needed, encouraging people to get up on deck in the rain, before breakfast, to lower the sails from a harbour stow ready to sail off is an entirely different matter. On Royalist as Watchleader the cadet in charge of the watch needs to be that one that is up first, is on deck ready first up on the sails, and when the cadets don't want to do it, you get up there with them, thats what is needed there. The Carrot method is used here.

But on a Drill night when they are going to be throwing a bit of metal around all night, they need their drill heads on, they need to know to shut up, listen in and cut the rubbish. That needs the stick method.

The Unit has just recieved the highest possible grading for Field Assessment (by a serving RM C/Sgt) and usually goes to National Level for Drill Competitions, the cadets want to be treated like life in the Corps, and from the courses I've been on at Lympestone that means being beasted.

Addition: I am sorry if people seem to be seeing this as me as picking on a cadet, it is not that, its something that Cadet NCOs have been doing for years, random names were barked at me in the process of going through the ranks of a cadet, and (although some of you are going to -wrongly in my own view- disagree) I do not think it caused me any damage what so ever. In my view it made me buck my ideas up, shut up and listen to what the Cadet NCO had to say, they had been there and done it, so listen to them.
I do not honestly believe that these names affect cadets, this is a cadet that was loud mouthing others, and thought himself to be the most important person in the world, he needs to be brought back down to the reality, in that he is no more important, he's not got any badges on his epaulettes, so he can listen in until he has gained the experience, until he can use the L98 without any additional practice.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
Addition: I am sorry if people seem to be seeing this as me as picking on a cadet, it is not that, its something that Cadet NCOs have been doing for years, random names were barked at me in the process of going through the ranks of a cadet, and (although some of you are going to -wrongly in my own view- disagree) I do not think it caused me any damage what so ever. In my view it made me buck my ideas up, shut up and listen to what the Cadet NCO had to say, they had been there and done it, so listen to them.
I do not honestly believe that these names affect cadets, this is a cadet that was loud mouthing others, and thought himself to be the most important person in the world, he needs to be brought back down to the reality, in that he is no more important, he's not got any badges on his epaulettes, so he can listen in until he has gained the experience, until he can use the L98 without any additional practice.

Oh thats all right then.

So was Slavery.

Stop being a throbber. you are not staff, you are certainly not a 1st Lt, a CO or an OCMCD.

YOU CAN NOT PUNISH OTHER CADETS.

in case you dont understand Sea Cadet Regulations...

YOU CAN NOT PUNISH CADETS

Its that simple, staff will take care of the situation, its what they are there for, and why they give up thier time free of charge.

Rincewind
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt wrote: I don't think that those punishments (pressure from their oppos) always work, because if you have done your work well, the cadets are working as one, and will usually forgive their mate. Peer pressure today seems to work only negatively, never to make people work better, unfortunately, people do need to be made an example of, I usually find they come out as better people, more disciplined, thicker skinned and know the difference between bullying and some words to make them buck their ideas up.

You know my views; I've already aired them and it seems that you're just not getting the whole "we don't name call, we don't dish out punishments, we don't bully, etc, etc concept. This is not what the RN is about these days and by default it is not what the SSC, CCF, Scouts or any other youth group is about. The problem seems to be that "you don't think" and just because it doesn't bother you, does not mean that it will not bother anyone else. If this guy is as bad as you say he is then I am certain there is a formal warning process you can employ against him. At the end of the day if he does not improve, you don't really want him around, and by following a non-bullying (because that is what it is) policy to achieve this you will retain the integrity of yourself and your unit.

If you really can't see this, then I suggest that you might be in the wrong position.

SF
 
Strewth

Future navy cake. A strutting meglomaniac and a gwar who runs away and sulks.

Should Britain Tremble?


........
 
So if NCOs can't punish, what do you propose they do when they are taking a parade as the senior cadet? What do you propose they do on the several occasions when they are they are supposed to take charge, something that happens regularly.

For instance, this ginger cadet proved himself to be once again, on the actual parade this Sunday, when during the service, he was talking and being disruptive throughout, I was once again the only senior one about, if I cannot punish cadets, what do you propose I do whilst he disrupts the service for others around him? Wait until the end of the parade until I can tell on him to his PO? Well that was effective, he would simply be told don't do it again, oh the shame of that.

Unfortunatly SCC HQ are not at Cadet Parade Nights, and furthermore I don't think many staff see what cadets get upto when staff are not around.

Again if you think I'm picking on cadets I'm not, neither are the other NCOs I know. I see there is no bullying, bullying is a picking on someone for some reason.

The process that has been set out does not work, the cadet gets a talk from the CO or senior staff, nothing much happens, they walk away, and do it again. I am fully aware that the SCC takes Bullying extremely seriously, I have seen cadets kicked out for bullying, and rightly so, however, what I was doing, calling a cadet, randomly ginger, and doing what all senior marine cadet NCOs do, making them run 100m and back, is not bullying.

But please explain how you deal with cadets that are unruly, part of a cadet NCOs job is to maintain calm, and quiet within the ranks, otherwise please tell me what they are there to do.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
But please explain how you deal with cadets that are unruly, part of a cadet NCOs job is to maintain calm, and quiet within the ranks, otherwise please tell me what they are there to do.

Give him a slap, and if he goes down put the boot in.
You can`t have people being disruptive FFS.

He`ll be saying bollocks to the skipper next.

……
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
But please explain how you deal with cadets that are unruly, part of a cadet NCOs job is to maintain calm, and quiet within the ranks, otherwise please tell me what they are there to do.

By "leading" not "pushing"; by getting the other cadet(s) to want to obey your legitimate instructions rather than in trying to coerce their unwilling participation.

Your excuse that "its always been done" holds water slightly worse than a leaky sieve - when I joined the RNR, the discipline environment was different to that of today; times change, attitudes must change to suit, including yours! If you are getting trouble from one cadet in particular, don't look at him in the first instance, look at yourself - does he do it to piss you off for instance? If someone knows he can wind you up, he might be doing it deliberately to get a bite.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
This ginger cadet then starts complaining about being called a ginger, and barges out of the parade and has a sulk outside.
Again if you think I'm picking on cadets I'm not, neither are the other NCOs I know. I see there is no bullying, bullying is a picking on someone for some reason.

The process that has been set out does not work, the cadet gets a talk from the CO or senior staff, nothing much happens, they walk away, and do it again. I am fully aware that the SCC takes Bullying extremely seriously, I have seen cadets kicked out for bullying, and rightly so, however, what I was doing, calling a cadet, randomly ginger, and doing what all senior marine cadet NCOs do, making them run 100m and back, is not bullying.


Booty_Cdt_Sgt, you need to be very careful. Most people that are bullies do not see themselves as such and make all sorts of reasons to justify what they do. I don't know how old you are, what you do ,whether you're still at school, in higher education or at work but the law is quite clear on bulling and harassment.

Below is a definition of bullying and as far as I can see, where I have quoted you falls neatly into this definition.

“Persistent, offensive, abusive, intimidating, malicious or insulting behaviour, abuse of power or unfair penal sanctions which makes the recipient feel upset, threatened, humiliated or vulnerable which undermines their self-confidence and which may cause them to suffer stress.â€

Examples of bullying behaviour are:

intimidation and aggression
withholding information
setting impossible deadlines or tasks
disparaging comments or remarks, often in front of others
taking credit for others achievements or initiatives


What you need to remember is that children and young adults mature at different rates.
One twelve year old might get upset at name-calling whilst another might be doing drugs, stealing cars and mugging old ladies.
You are NOT in the Royal Marines trying to toughen up recruits that may be about to go to a war zone after their initial and trade training. You are in a cadet corps which to me is much the same as the Boy Scouts, and obviously you are not an instructor.
 
Jimmy_Green said:
You are in a cadet corps which to me is much the same as the Boy Scouts, and obviously you are not an instructor.

The difference being that cadets wear a uniform which, to the untrained eye, appears identical to that of HM Forces. Given that fact, a certain standard of discipline is certainly needed and I think we all agree that bullying is an unacceptable way of attaining that discipline. That said a sharp tongue is sometimes the only way to get children (for that is what most of them are) to behave. There is however a very fine line between disparaging remarks and the necessary verbal force to maintain discipline - and anyone in a position of authority is bound to cross that line inadvertently at some point, for nobody is a perfect instructor.
 
I do agree with what you say Dunkers, sometimes it is difficult not to cross that line. Whilst I myself have no experience in instructing youngsters, I was responding to what appeared to me as a poor attitude from the booty cadet sgt.

Yes, to the untrained eye a cadet uniform might look like military uniform but I would think that it is not so difficult to tell the difference between a group of youngsters of ages ranging from about 12 to 16 and adult servicemen. Admittedly there might be some confusion where a lone individual in uniform is at the crossover ages of 16-18 but I'm sure that doesn't happen too often.


Going off at another tangent, I do believe that we are now living in a society which constantly fails to impose any real levels of discipline amongst children and the consequences can be seen all around us.

Personally I don't think a clip round the ear does any harm but I bring you back to my point that the law doesn't allow that to happen any more. When I joined my first ship I quickly learned to develope a thick skin. I learned how to take the shit and how to sling it back, but I wasn't a child. Sometimes even as an adult when you're in the hot seat it can be a bit difficult to take, but most of the time it's not personal and what goes around comes around.

A few years ago apparently, a red and yellow card system was introduced at Raleigh so the trainees could warn the instructors if they didn't like doing what they were told to do. RN instructors had to behave more like baby sitters and social workers to mollycoddled kids rather than instructors training recruits how to become efficient military personnel.

Times have changed and I don't always think for the better.

Still, we have a responsibility not to permit bullying and harassment. Turning a blind eye can be enough to drop oneself in the brown and stinky.

I will still take the piss out of people, whether they have got ginger hair or eyes in both watches, as long as I know that the person I'm slinging shit at is able to do the same and not take offence and go crying off to his DO. It's a case of weighing up peoples personalities and I don't think that cadet booty got it right.
 
As has been said earlier, children today are not as robust as we had to be in order to survive school. Things have changed beyond all recognition to me, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. What was acceptable in our day is not tolerated today. When I was at school prefects could cane younger boys - I have a strange feeling that that is illegal now - oh and I went to a comprehensive school! I would never advocate returning to those days - that was wrong, very wrong - it allowed a small minority of bullies to make the lives of some of their victims especially miserable!
 
A few years ago apparently, a red and yellow card system was introduced at Raleigh so the trainees could warn the instructors if they didn't like doing what they were told to do. RN instructors had to behave more like baby sitters and social workers to mollycoddled kids rather than instructors training recruits how to become efficient military personnel.

Please, please tell me you are joking. I had heard that instructors weren’t allowed to shout at trainees. But this? Agh I give up!
 
dt018a9667 said:
A few years ago apparently, a red and yellow card system was introduced at Raleigh so the trainees could warn the instructors if they didn't like doing what they were told to do. RN instructors had to behave more like baby sitters and social workers to mollycoddled kids rather than instructors training recruits how to become efficient military personnel.

Please, please tell me you are joking. I had heard that instructors weren’t allowed to shout at trainees. But this? Agh I give up!

I think that was a myth put about by the Sun. THAT cannot have been true... surely?!? 8O :? :(
 
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