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SCC HQ: Beasting is banned

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Slim - the whole point is that, like it or not, there is no place in the RN today for this kind of thing. The way things are shaping up (and for the better in my opinion) is that those doing the bullying (or name calling) will be the ones who are as welcome in the mess as a dose of crabs.

Sorry mate - times are moving on.

SF
 
Although the SCC is intended to teach children the virtues of Naval life, it is easy for us (as adults) to voice these comments ("it's only name-calling"; "it would happen in the RN anyway", etc). However we forget that the Cadets are still young, and have yet to develop their intersocial skills, i.e. how to deflect personal criticism, a skill that takes some adults a long time to develop. As Matelots we can sling crap at each other all day long because we, as adults, generally can tell the difference between idle banter and bullying, however impressionable children usualy cannot.
The original poster should lead by example - the cadets he was speaking to should be inspired to be like him, a Drill "Instructor", not a Drill "Abuser". However his comments/actions could have proved to be counterproductive. The 'victim' may think that it is acceptable in the future to use a similar course of action himself, or even leave the SCC completely.
The fact that he 'only' ran off and sulked shows that the comment was taken personally - the Instructor should think himself lucky and learn from this experience and develop a better teaching method.
 
At the age of 14 a sense of proportion should have been learned. He will go through life and unless he dies his hair will frequently be referred to as Ginge. I thought that he would have learned this by now as young children are far crueller to their classmates than any adults.
All this wrapping kids up in cotton wool is not doing them any favours when they eventually have to join the real world.
As for anti bullying laws, what construes bullying?
 
Dunkers - absolutely no need for apologies. This is an open forum and by default a place to air common AND differing views. Whether we choose to agree from the outset or agree to disagree later makes no difference. At the end of the day it is our opinion to which we are all entitled.

I'm not suggesting that your mate (or you for that matter) are bullies; far from it. I just have a particularly strong viewpoint on these issues.

Like you, I meant no offence.

And speaking of agreeing to disagree - Slim, I think we've reached that point mate. :wink:

SF
 
Basically - if it had been my unit, i would have bounced the Booty Sgt for the name calling (In Private), and the unauthorised punishment, there are only two people in an SCC unit who can punish cadets (3 with an MCD) - thats the CO and 1st Lt (and OCMCD).

Physical punishment is forbidden - all physical activity must be done under the supervision of a PTI.

I have ways and means of dealing with scroaty cadets and sulkers.... none of which i will mention in open forum as - if its not in the "white guide" it doesnt happen.

We all know what the real world is like, we all try to prepare the cadets for it - but i have known a cadet reach into his pocket and dial child line for being told off for queue jumping at nutty time.

they are cnuts half the time. Doesnt mean you can beast them.

Yes i agree, ginge is a given - but for the carrot topped wa nk er its hurtful.

and this is something we all have to come to terms with.

yes i want to make my cadets tougher and more resilient to life and what it will throw at them, but the government has mollycoddled them to death and taken away all the tools of our generation.

Calling someone ginge to ridicule them in front of thier peers is tantamount to bullying. its the destruction of ones self confidence and the embarrasment in front of thier friends that causes the pain.

We are here to promote self confidence, and here to guide them to becoming responsible citizens.

So grow up, and knock it off.

Rincewind
 
There are more original and inspired ways of bringing them down a peg or two without resorting to name calling - you only reduce yourself to their immature level and shows lack of imagination...
 
sgtpepperband said:
There are more original and inspired ways of bringing them down a peg or two without resorting to name calling - you only reduce yourself to their immature level and shows lack of imagination...

Exactly my point.

Leadership is the ability to inspire people to do sh1t jobs and make them think its great

Rincewind
 
Sorry Guys. I was assuming they were like my generation - when being publically ridiculed and humiliated etc was part of growing up - even at primary school!

I agree that bullying is wrong and unacceptable, thought I must be honest and say that I would not have even considered such behaviour to constitute bullying. Shows how out of touch I am with modern society!

Steve.
 
Always_a_Civvy said:
Sorry Guys. I was assuming they were like my generation - when being publically ridiculed and humiliated etc was part of growing up - even at primary school!

I agree that bullying is wrong and unacceptable, thought I must be honest and say that I would not have even considered such behaviour to constitute bullying. Shows how out of touch I am with modern society!

Steve.

Like your reply Steve.

Right you lot, the enemy are attacking, how shall we deal with them cadet Smith?
I know sir lets bombard them with nasty names
 
I am sorry to see that there is some disagreement here, this is not me picking on someone, this is a cadet not having any personal discipline, not able to stand correctly when fallen in, and the people I know who are ginger accept it, comes with the terriotary. I've got an Irish background and would take being called Paddy or whatever on the chin, its a name, means nothing, I'm Catholic call me a left-footer or whatever you like. It is a name, nothing personal. If you cannot deal with something as pointless at that you must have some serious problems.

A bit of running or press-ups are not major punishments, I'm not kicking this guy in the shins, I never attempted to lay a finger on him in the slightest, and never would, there is a world of difference between 10 press ups and hitting a cadet, the latter being unacceptable, the former being something that happens in all Marine Units.

When I joined the cadets I knew that I would be doing press-ups or doing "pays to be a winner" running between a point if I got something wrong.

Maybe thats the difference between MCDs and the Bluejackets, the cadets at my Unit know it is not bullying, it is a "pointer" if you don't want to go for a run then ensure your kit is in top order and you stand properly to attention when fallen in the ranks for Colours.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
A bit of running or press-ups are not major punishments, I'm not kicking this guy in the shins, I never attempted to lay a finger on him in the slightest, and never would, there is a world of difference between 10 press ups and hitting a cadet, the latter being unacceptable, the former being something that happens in all Marine Units.

I was recently advised that I couldn't give out individual "punishments" if someone had transgressed - however, if a person repeatedly cocks up, there was no such restriction on issuing a "reward" to a whole class - allow the mess deck to point out the error of a person's ways, its probably much more direct!
 
Thats the problem though, if you do not make an example of someone, people will see their mistakes as acceptable, they too will begin to become ill-disciplined, unfortunatly I am pessimisstic, I think that people are naturally lazy, and if they can see that they can get away with not standing in the ranks properly, they can talk to their oppos whilst I'm supposed to be doing a roll call (which is for their safety afterall!) then why will they stand there quiet?

There are times for using the carrot and there are times for using the stick, the stick needs to used to at times when a short term re-instilling of discipline is needed, the carrot will usually work in the long term.

I don't think that those punishments (pressure from their oppos) always work, because if you have done your work well, the cadets are working as one, and will usually forgive their mate. Peer pressure today seems to work only negatively, never to make people work better, unfortunately, people do need to be made an example of, I usually find they come out as better people, more disciplined, thicker skinned and know the difference between bullying and some words to make them buck their ideas up.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
I don't think that those punishments (pressure from their oppos) always work, because if you have done your work well, the cadets are working as one, and will usually forgive their mate.

From personal experience, people will forgive only so much; if the same person is repeatedly causing, either deliberately or inadvertently, the whole team to have to undertake extra work then group dynamics will result in pressure being applied. This pressure can be quite subtle and you may never see it.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt said:
Thats the problem though, if you do not make an example of someone, people will see their mistakes as acceptable, they too will begin to become ill-disciplined, unfortunatly I am pessimisstic, I think that people are naturally lazy, and if they can see that they can get away with not standing in the ranks properly, they can talk to their oppos whilst I'm supposed to be doing a roll call (which is for their safety afterall!) then why will they stand there quiet?

There are times for using the carrot and there are times for using the stick, the stick needs to used to at times when a short term re-instilling of discipline is needed, the carrot will usually work in the long term.

I don't think that those punishments (pressure from their oppos) always work, because if you have done your work well, the cadets are working as one, and will usually forgive their mate. Peer pressure today seems to work only negatively, never to make people work better, unfortunately, people do need to be made an example of, I usually find they come out as better people, more disciplined, thicker skinned and know the difference between bullying and some words to make them buck their ideas up.

Noticed from another thread you want to be a Warfare Officer. Try the above statement at the AIB, see how far you get.

You really need to discuss this with someone. Rincewind seems to be knowledgeable in all things Cadet.

We live in world that has far more choices and options than our fathers and Grandfathers did. Very few people respond to this style of leadership anymore, because they have the option not to. You practice any of the above on the bridge of a ship and will have more AB's putting in their notice than you can shake a big hairy stick at.

You are developing an attitude and leadership style that will stop your career before it starts.
 
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