SCC HQ: Beasting is banned

Discussion in 'SCC and URNU' started by Booty_Cdt_Sgt, Oct 15, 2006.

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  1. Title says it all really, I have it on good authority that SCC HQ are banning the use of beastings in punishments, i.e. usually press-ups running etc. to cadets. Now how do they propose we punish cadets quickly? Furthermore why have the banned it? Causing mental harm to the cadets?

    Also like to point out how bad some cadets of today are, (I am one of them) the other night we were doing drill training with our local SCC Unit for a combined bit of drill (two seperate squads though) on Trafalgar Day, so they've come to our Marine Parade Night for drill training with the L98 Rifle (Cadet Version of the SA80), one of the SCC is fallen into the parade of which I was the senior cadet in front, and is talking away to his oppo, standing poorly to attention etc, so I go upto him and say "Less of your chat, ginge, gate and back double away!"
    This ginger cadet then starts complaining about being called a ginger, and barges out of the parade and has a sulk outside.

    I am later told by the SCC PO that he does not like being called ginger, I could not care less to be honest, when he is fallen in on a parade I am taking, he can be called what I choose if he does not fall in properly, but SCC Rules now say their feelings must be taken into account, what rubbish!
     
  2. If they join the Regulars I wonder if the enemy will consider their feelings when firing at them? :roll: :lol:
     
  3. When i was an adult Instructor in the SCC at Hertford,i addressed this very problem.I took the old "numbers" system of Puns and adated them to the needs of the Unit.i.e depending on the severity the appropriate puns were awarded.These ranged from Extra Duties in and around the Unit from litter picking to boat and unit maintainance,you know,the little jobs that Cadets run a mile from doing.It worked really well,in fact some cadets actually started to volunteer to do the more dirty and onerous tasks such as scraping and painting.The behaviour did improve as did the Drill(we had extra drill as a puns).The PFA were all for it as well.
     
  4. That sounds sensible. How about promoting Ginge to Captain of the Heads for a month?
     
  5. Personally I think Booty_Cdt_Sgt is being an idiot here. Who died and elected him Hitler anyway?

    If he has to resort to name calling then he is acting equally as bad, if not worse. After all - he holds the position of authority and by default should be setting the right example. Besides there are always better ways of dishing out appropriate punishment that don't necessarily involve beasting.

    SF
     
  6. you got off lightly, I'd have decked you. Who gave you the right to decide what offends someone? They are only kids after all. There are better ways to motivate teenagers rather than shouting at them. If thats what you think you have to do, or worse enjoy doing, you need to seriously consider your position. Been watching too much Bad Lads Army perhaps. Get real, we don't live in 1950 anymore.
     
  7. If I was your CO you would be Ex-Booty_Cdt_Sgt right now.
    Just out of Interest, what would you call someone who is Black or Asian or Irish? or is that different?
     
  8. In my time as a cadet (Jan 02 - Feb 06) it was my understanding all physical punishments were not permitted; only those punishments outlined in the White Guide (the cadet discipline manual) were allowed, and these did not include anything physical.

    Silver Fox (and others), the point I think BCdtSgt is trying to make is not that name-calling should be allowed, but that such stringent constraints on discipline methods lead to cadets being unable to handle the slightest affront to their dignity. Case in point: a kid not being able to laugh off or simply disregard being called "ginger". How does this prepare them for life? - it doesn't.

    I would say that this is indicative of the youth of today... but then I AM the youth of today and it doesn't apply to me, nor my oppo the Cadet Sgt. We must be anomalies :lol:

    Those of you who say they are "just kids" - I remind you that there have been "kids" of that age (14+) in the RN within many of your lifetimes. Bear that in mind.
     
  9. I think we should get real. What is a bit of name calling. Nicknames are part of service life and if Ginge or whatever he is called does go and join the services he will have to endure more than a few names. Tall guys are called shorty, stumpy guys either Lofty or Stumpy, Fat guys and I am speaking from experience slim or as an oppo of mine was called Twiggy. He ended up as Master of Arms and yes he still answered to the name of Twiggy. As for the black guys we had two aircraft handlers on the Ark Royal who drove the flight deck lifts. One was called Snowflake the other Snowdrop. Neither took offence at this and none was meant. The Irish, well they were always Paddy or Mick. Nicknames were part of service life in my day and hopefully still are and will remain so. if you can't stand hurt feelings how are you going to respond to real pain?
     
  10. Got a good point there. I think you might be addressing some of the problems that are now hitting basic training at that place in torpoint as I am lead to believe.
    Don’t forget we are talking about today’s bleeding heart generation and anything seams to upset them.
     
  11. I've found a far easier way of 'punishing' the cadets, just make them stand out side the CO's office during stand easy,

    or better still just threaten it, amazing what a denial of a sugar rush can do to a teenager!
     
  12. In the real world outside the protective cushioning of home and mummy's hand, people are often cruel and nasty and name calling all part of life. Workplace bullying is still common these days and name calling is part of that ethos. Being called Ginger is positivly unoffensive in contrast to the sort of things we called each other when I was at school in the 60s and 70s. Even the teachers at my secondary school thought nothing of mocking pupils and humiliating you in front of tha class - it was the way things were in boys' schools then. How are these kids going to cope with the big bad world if they cannot handle trivial name calling in this specific context in a quasi-Service setting? They are seriously deluding themselves!

    Secondly, I don't see how making them double round the Parade Ground or do press-ups can be deemed to amount to physical punishment. I can see nothing wrong in making them perform minor punishments such as these. They are not being assaulted - that would be unacceptable.
     

  13. Top of the class mate , top of the class , :?
     
  14. Dunkers wrote: Silver Fox (and others), the point I think BCdtSgt is trying to make is not that name-calling should be allowed, but that such stringent constraints on discipline methods lead to cadets being unable to handle the slightest affront to their dignity. Case in point: a kid not being able to laugh off or simply disregard being called "ginger". How does this prepare them for life? - it doesn't.

    I would say that this is indicative of the youth of today... but then I AM the youth of today and it doesn't apply to me, nor my oppo the Cadet Sgt. We must be anomalies

    --------------------------------------------
    Thanks for the lecture mate - like I really needed it. Seriously though? I take your point - kids are a bit softer these days and need a little more backbone; however I stand by the fact that BCdtSgt is supposedly a leader amongst them, and, leadership is about setting the right example. The best leaders are those who don’t need to resort to punishment, or name calling for that matter.

    If Ginge is a nickname he is content with, then no problem, but he obviously doesn’t like the term. Most red-heads I know find the term to be derogatory and that is obviously how it was used in this instance. If BCdtSgt wants to earn / keep the respect of his cadets then he should start by treating them the same way he would like to be treated. You’re obviously young, and therefore inexperienced (yes I am being patronising) and would do well therefore to bear in mind that one man’s banter is another man’s bullying. This is well covered in Equal Ops training in the RN today and frankly, if you don’t see a problem then you’re at fault too.

    Finally, re your point “I remind you that there have been "kids" of that age (14+) in the RN within many of your lifetimes. Bear that in mindâ€. Thankfully we’re in a different world now and don’t use kids as power monkeys or cheap, uneducated labour in factories. We’ve even outlawed things like slavery and summary punishment; my how we have progressed.

    As a youngster yourself, you like us before you, are privileged beyond the wildest imagination of the 14 year olds you mention. Be grateful and cut this lad some slack. If he doesn’t share your oppos sense of humour – that’s his right! It’s also his right to be called by his name or rank. Respect is a fragile thing and I think it is fair to say that he has the right to the same respect you and BCdtSgt ask from him.

    This brings me nicely back to setting examples – Leadership? Wonderful thing when it’s done right. End of lecture.

    Now as to why I care so much? Because I have witnessed too much bullying, often starting with name calling, in my service in the RN. It never works out well for either party.

    SF
     
  15. Great advise o the ginger lad. If he takes it and behaves like a girlie then joins up he will be as welcome in the mess like a dose of crabs.
    Don't like the nickname, best learn to.
     
  16. Slim - the whole point is that, like it or not, there is no place in the RN today for this kind of thing. The way things are shaping up (and for the better in my opinion) is that those doing the bullying (or name calling) will be the ones who are as welcome in the mess as a dose of crabs.

    Sorry mate - times are moving on.

    SF
     
  17. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Although the SCC is intended to teach children the virtues of Naval life, it is easy for us (as adults) to voice these comments ("it's only name-calling"; "it would happen in the RN anyway", etc). However we forget that the Cadets are still young, and have yet to develop their intersocial skills, i.e. how to deflect personal criticism, a skill that takes some adults a long time to develop. As Matelots we can sling crap at each other all day long because we, as adults, generally can tell the difference between idle banter and bullying, however impressionable children usualy cannot.
    The original poster should lead by example - the cadets he was speaking to should be inspired to be like him, a Drill "Instructor", not a Drill "Abuser". However his comments/actions could have proved to be counterproductive. The 'victim' may think that it is acceptable in the future to use a similar course of action himself, or even leave the SCC completely.
    The fact that he 'only' ran off and sulked shows that the comment was taken personally - the Instructor should think himself lucky and learn from this experience and develop a better teaching method.
     
  18. Sorry SF, didn't mean to come across as "lecturing" you.
    Just trying to present both sides of the story.
     
  19. At the age of 14 a sense of proportion should have been learned. He will go through life and unless he dies his hair will frequently be referred to as Ginge. I thought that he would have learned this by now as young children are far crueller to their classmates than any adults.
    All this wrapping kids up in cotton wool is not doing them any favours when they eventually have to join the real world.
    As for anti bullying laws, what construes bullying?
     
  20. Dunkers - absolutely no need for apologies. This is an open forum and by default a place to air common AND differing views. Whether we choose to agree from the outset or agree to disagree later makes no difference. At the end of the day it is our opinion to which we are all entitled.

    I'm not suggesting that your mate (or you for that matter) are bullies; far from it. I just have a particularly strong viewpoint on these issues.

    Like you, I meant no offence.

    And speaking of agreeing to disagree - Slim, I think we've reached that point mate. :wink:

    SF
     
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