Scarborough Veterans March

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
As a diversion from all the PC threads here on RR, I thought I'd spend my lunchtime browsing the BBC news to keep in touch with what's happening in Blighty.

What should I find? Another story providing yet more evidence that petty bureacracy is strangling Britain. The annual parade by a group of WW2 destroyer veterans nearly didn't happen due to the police insisting on them having taken out public liability insurance.

On reading this I had several immediate questions:

1. Why can't official veterans groups be automatically covered from the public purse as a small token of the nation's thanks for their efforts in WW2.

2. What risk does a groups of people aged from 70 - 80+ pose to the public that necessitates cover of 1 million pounds?

3. Why are we allowing petty minded, middle management bureaucrats to get away with the mantra "you can't do that - health and safety, you know"?

As a professional safety engineer, the blanket approach to H&S reallly grips my sh1t - safety is all about taking reasonable and appropriate steps to reduce risk, its not about having a recipe that can be followed blindly; it mean the application of thought and judgement and result in measured and appropriate responses.

I wonder how much liability insurance the RNR had to cough up for RNR100 - all those people on Hoss Cod Spread and a 96 man guard, complete with SA80s, not to mention all those swords and cutlasses on display. Someone could have been seriously hurt - ideally one of the petty narrow-minded unthinking f*ckwit jobsworths that cite Health & Safety at every opportunity!
 

Father_Famine

Lantern Swinger
Does this mean that every march has to have public liability insurance and Hi Vis Vested Stewards.

Countryside alliance, Green ********* with babies attached against coal fired power stations, orange lodge marches, HMS Manchester parading with bayonets fixed through the streets of Manch.

As a RNA Standard Bearer maybe I should check my insurance, do you think I need a Hi Viz Vest or do you thik a 5ft by 2 1/2ft "flag" on a 6ft pole is enough notice of my presence?

Does politically correct depend on what political party you belong to?
 
It's not the officials you should be blaming but those responsible! The problem is that if anyone gets hurt by accident, they can sue the local authority. What is really to blame here is the increased propensity to litigate. The officials are simply doing what their elected political masters have ordered them to do.
 
Father_Famine said:
Does this mean that every march has to have public liability insurance and Hi Vis Vested Stewards.

Countryside alliance, Green ********* with babies attached against coal fired power stations, orange lodge marches, HMS Manchester parading with bayonets fixed through the streets of Manch.

As a RNA Standard Bearer maybe I should check my insurance, do you think I need a Hi Viz Vest or do you thik a 5ft by 2 1/2ft "flag" on a 6ft pole is enough notice of my presence?

Does politically correct depend on what political party you belong to?
FF, you may need to be insured incase you do yourself a mischief when you're putting the standard back in its holster! :lol:
 

The_Caretaker

War Hero
Hi I am the Secretary of the RBL in Wimbledon, this year I have been told to do a Risk Assesment on our Parade, not only us but the TA, boys Brigade Council the Choir this is madness.
 
The H&S fascisti have apparently demanded a Risk Assessment for a choir in Yorkshire - I wonder how they sound, if this is a requirement ?
:)

I have to slightly disagree with AAC on the 'officials doing what their masters have ordered' - common sense should prevail here, as has done for years before some peabrained clots decided to allow the EU (has anyone actually met anyone else who voted for this EU parliament?) to dictate, but then some local councils just love to jackboot about, particularly those of the red or orange persuasion !
 
Having got involved in the past in organising activities that suddenly started to require risk assesments I found that in general they merely recorded the sensible common sense way you went about things, and in reality from year to year became useful tools. Any decent self resp[ecting organisation will actually have done a risk assesment informally every time they organise something. Also having done one you are far better protected from the likes of 'claims are us' ambulance chasers. For the same reason public liability insurance can make sense, although I agree with FW above that it would only be decent if this was met from one of the many public purses.

Peter
 
whitemouse said:
The H&S fascisti have apparently demanded a Risk Assessment for a choir in Yorkshire - I wonder how they sound, if this is a requirement ?
:)

I have to slightly disagree with AAC on the 'officials doing what their masters have ordered' - common sense should prevail here, as has done for years before some peabrained clots decided to allow the EU (has anyone actually met anyone else who voted for this EU parliament?) to dictate, but then some local councils just love to jackboot about, particularly those of the red or orange persuasion !
Ah but whitemouse the EU Parliament does not decide on matters such as these, which are handled by the unelected Council of Ministers, who in practice exercise most power within the EU - so much for direct accountability! The Council of Ministers (COM) are appointed by our elected politicians, or rather the government of the day. Draft Legislation is submitted and discussed and agreed upon by the COM who then issue any resulting legislation in the form of a Directive, the continental equivalent of a Statute (Act of Parliament). It is then up to member states to impliment the Directive into domestic law and determine by what means it will be enforced. Disputes that arise may be ultimately settled in the Court of Justice in the Hague. The long and short of this is that far from blaming the EU you should infact be holding MPs accountable for their inaction in challenging Draft Legislation in the first place. If they were proactive in this area much poor legislation simply wouldn't get passed.
 
Further to AAC's comments many of the problems we suffer from the implementation of EEC regulations is that our elected polititians aided by our civil service implement the regulations in ways that put us at a disadvantage to other EU countries. When the complaints start flowing in as they do, they then sit on their backsides saying it is all the fault of the EU when in reality they cocked it up again.

Peter
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Maxi_77 said:
Further to AAC's comments many of the problems we suffer from the implementation of EEC regulations is that our elected polititians aided by our civil service implement the regulations in ways that put us at a disadvantage to other EU countries.
The UK has a tendency to adopt the regulations with enthusiasm and follows the rules rigidly; in the process the rule makers tend to "Gold Plate" the legislation, i.e. we make it much more stringent than actually required.

Maxi_77 said:
When the complaints start flowing in as they do, they then sit on their backsides saying it is all the fault of the EU when in reality they cocked it up again.
I think however at long last they are beginning to listen; there is now something called the Davidson Review of Goldplating being run by the Cabinet Office's Better Regulation Executive.

This Review has identified the issue of the scope of health and safety directives as an area of goldplating: for example contractors and self-employed people are outside their scope in EU directives, but brought inside when the directives are transposed into UK law. The review is contacting contractors and self-employed people through recognised groups to determine whether this gold-plating has caused problems.

While it may not address lunatic application of H&S in the immediate future, at least it is recognised that the UK has, on this occasion at least, gone over the top.
 

chockhead819

War Hero
at my RBL last night this issue was raised & we were told we had to produe a risk assesment for the area where our poppies are going to be stored while people go in & out, also if we put up a gazebo to sell them from, ensuring everyone knows the escape routes!!
 
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