San Josef, Plymouth

lsadirty

War Hero
The view of Marlborough Street as I remember it from the late 40s til the 60s was virtually the same as the one shown in the article. Grew up in nearby Cannon Street, next to Morice Yard.
 

afcbsimon

Midshipman
Interesting information on Marlborough Street, thanks.

I can confirm that John Graham must have died in 1845 prior to September as that is when his son was born.

I think the best way to confirm the Carlisle link is to get hold of John Graham's death cert (if possible) and that should have his place of birth on it hopefully.

Regards,
Simon
 

afcbsimon

Midshipman
James John Graham was born on 13th or 30th (difficult to read) September 1845 at 24 Geeks Alley, Devonport.
Father - John Graham (deceased)
Mother - Elizabeth Ann Graham (formerly Sedgeman)
Fathers profession - Seaman
Informant details - The Mark X of Elizabeth Graham - Mother - 24 Geeks Alley, Devonport
Birth registered 3rd October 1845
 

soleil

War Hero
Thanks, Simon. In that case, under normal circumstances, we can assume that John Graham died in the period February - September 1845.

Suggest that his son was born on the 30th and his birth registered a few days later, as is the norm.
 

afcbsimon

Midshipman
Agreed.

I just checked on the cotton industry in Carlisle and the 1840's seemed to be a boom period with the industry only declining in that area in the 1860's a;though that doesnt stop people changing jobs however what is interesting is there are a couple of John Graham's who died in Jan and July 1845 in Carlisle.
 

soleil

War Hero
Yes, I just spotted that about the John Grahams dying in Carlisle in the quarter to March and the quarter to September 1845.

Strangely, I can see no John Grahams dying in Devon in that year.

The Carlisle thing came about because I searched for any John Grahams on the 1841 Census. There were only 3 and they all lived in places with memorable names.

I then searched the Census for James Grahams of whom there were far more and ran my eye down their addresses until I saw one which matched one of the three for John. There was only one James Graham which matched, the one in Carlisle.
 
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afcbsimon

Midshipman
It would be strange for someone to leave their bride of one year especially a pregnant one unless he was just going home for a visit i guess but that would have been expensive.

If he was still in the Navy when he died would there be a record of his death with them rather than it being registered in Devon?
 

soleil

War Hero
If he were serving at the time, his death would probably be entered in the ship's log. It is a little too early for anything more centralised.

I have done a search on the National Archives' website and found a John Graham connected to the Royal Navy who died in 1845 but it describes him as superannuated, which suggests a much older person:

John Graham, Superannuated Miller Deptford Dockyard, who died: 14 February 1845. Notes on executor's application for money owed by the Royal Navy.
 
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sweetpea

War Hero
Don't forget, it was not compulsory to register a birth or death prior to c.1875 IIRC. As for James Graham leaving the cotton mills to become a cabinet maker, I think that this is unlikely. In most cases a cabinet maker would be a journeyman (apprenticeship served) as it was classed as a highly skilled trade.

Simon, the place of birth is not recorded on a persons death certificate.

The Ships Muster & Pay Book are your best way forward. You have the name of a ship that you presume John Graham served on. To verify this fact, you should find him listed in the Ships Muster & Pay Book. Once you have found him listed, you can follow his career via the Pay Books. The Pay Books will record where John was serving,(whether he was transferred and where to) whether onboard a ship or at an establishment, and it will also record when payment ceased, ie, his death.

BTW, the surname Graham is common in Scotland too! :icon_smile:

That's my two penneth worth. :-D

SP.
 
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soleil

War Hero
Good point about the surname Graham being common in Scotland too SP.

Unfortunately, having looked at the 1841 Census for Scotland, I can't see a James Graham who was a Cabinet Maker.
 

afcbsimon

Midshipman
So we need to pin our hopes on the musters and pay books. Hopefully things will become clearer if Soleil can find John Graham on these when he visits Kew.

Just to confuse things further, I found the following.

Criminal Register for County of Devon - 28th February 1837
JAMES GRAHAM - AGE 35 - Convicted of Larceny and jailed for 6 weeks
 

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