San Josef, Plymouth

[afcbsimon]

Hi All,

I have a copy of the marriage certificate of a relative of mine, JOHN GRAHAM, that states his rank and profession as 'SEAMAN' 'SAN JOSEF'. The certificate is dated May 1844 and notes he was married at Devonport, Plymouth aged 20.

John Graham had a son born in 1856 and on the birth certificate it states his fathers profession as Seaman but that he was deceased.

I have looked online and discovered that the San Josef was a gunnery training ship at Plymouth at this time.

My questions are what job could John Graham have been doing on board the San Josef and how could John Graham have died? Will there be a record of service somewhere that will give me this information?

Regards,
Simon

 

[soleil]

Simon

I can see someone called John Graham listed in the Parish of Stoke Damerel, Devonport in the 1841 Census.

I can't decipher what is given as his Trade or Employment but his father, George, seems to be a Sailmaster (or is that Sailmaker ... the script is a bit tricky).

Just to add that normally I would pick up Service Records from the mid-19th century onwards via the National Archive but Service Records as such only exist from 1853.

 

[soleil]

I've found him now. He was a Sail Maker.

From the 1851 Census:

John Graham

Address:

10 Pym Street

Stoke Damerel

Devon

Birthplace:

Plymouth, Devon

Age: 27

Gender: Male

Relationship: Head

Marriage Status: Married

Occupation: Sail Maker




Sadly, I can now also see an entry in Deaths for the Plymouth area in the first quarter of 1856 for a John Graham. The cause of death will most likely be given on the Death Certificate, which you can order from here:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp


HMS San Josef: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_San_Josef_(1797)

 

[afcbsimon]

Hi Soleil,

Thank you for your responses however I believe you have the wrong man.

The John Graham I am looking for information on died in 1845/46 and his fathers name was James Graham (Cabinet Maker).

Regards,
Simon

 

[soleil]

Hi Soleil,

Thank you for your responses however I believe you have the wrong man.

The John Graham I am looking for information on died in 1845/46 and his fathers name was James Graham (Cabinet Maker).

Regards,
Simon

Oh no! I'm sorry about that. Everything matched, as well.

I shall have another look.

 

[soleil]

Forgive me for being slow, it's a side-effect of the flu, but I can't match up these two facts:

"John Graham had a son born in 1856 and on the birth certificate it states his fathers profession as Seaman but that he was deceased."

"The John Graham I am looking for information on died in 1845/46."

 

[afcbsimon]

Hi Soleil,

Apologies, 1856 was a typo. Sorry for wasting your time on that.

The correct date(s) of death for John Graham are 1845/46. He married Elizabeth Sedgeman in May 1844. John Graham then died whilst she was pregnant as the birth certificate of their child dated 1846 states father (John Graham) is deceased.

Sorry again.

Simon

 

[sweetpea]

The ADM 38 (Ships Musters) collection at the NA might prove helpful to you.

Go to " What records can I find at the National Archives"
Ships' musters and pay books (1667-1878). Type SAN JOSEF (leave HMS off).
Link:

Looking for records of a rating in the Royal Navy before 1853 | The National Archives

SP. :wink:

 

[afcbsimon]

Thanks Sweetpea.

I guess a trip to Kew is in order.

Simon

 

[soleil]

I'm going to be at Kew this month, Simon. If getting there means a long journey for you, I'm happy to look this up.

May I ask, by the way, what you have as an address for John Graham and also for his father? I had a hell of job tracing them on the 1841 census.

 

[afcbsimon]

Hi Soleil,

That would be great if you could check on this when you are at Kew. I'm wondering if John Graham died whilst in service as he must have died in 1845 aged 21/22ish.

I could not find James or John on the census either but John's marriage cert states he was resident in (looks like) MARLBOROUGH STREET if that helps at all.

Regards,
Simon

 

[soleil]

Simon

I have found a suitable household in the 1841 Census - a father called James Graham and a son called John Graham. John Graham is exactly the right age; unfortunately, James Graham isn't a Cabinet Maker at this point, but a Cotton Spinner; I see no reason why he couldn't have changed jobs between 1841 and 1844 though. John is also a Cotton Spinner at this point.

I posit that something happened to the family's jobs in the cotton industry in the period 1841-1844. James turned to Cabinet Making; John left for Devonport and the Navy, leading to his marriage in Devonport in 1844.

I have done a short timeline based on your information and my guesswork.

　
1841 Carlisle - St Cuthbert (Census)

James Graham aged 39
Ann Graham aged 39
John Graham aged 17

1841 Perranzabuloe - Porth (Census)

Elizabeth Sedgeman aged 25


1844 Devonport - Marriage of John Graham aged 20 to Elizabeth Sedgeman. John’s father is given as James Graham, Cabinet Maker. John is resident in Marlborough Street at the time of his marriage.

Marlborough Street in Devonport:

Plymouth, Roads and Streets* |* Marlborough Street, Devonport


1845 (prior to September 30th) Death of John Graham at the age of 21/22. In service?


1845 (September 30th) Birth of John Graham’s son (Birth Certificate gives profession of
Father (Deceased) as Seaman)