Sailors to supplement infantry in Afganistan

Discussion in 'The Fleet' started by damo567, Dec 13, 2006.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. I know this sounds a bit far fetched (well not really with this government), has any one heard the buzz that the government are on about supplementing the infantry units with 3000 sailors ???
  2. no heard mate, and to be honest, I couldn't see it happening. Sailors are not infanteers! Nor could they really be used as such.
  3. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    Read up on your history, during WW1 the Royal Navy Divisions were regarded as some of the finest fighting men....too many men, not enough ships, sound at at all familiar.....could this be a case of history repeating itselft?
  4. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Hmmm! and at Gallipoli 16000 of the 19000 in the Division were casualties! There is an interesting article in Novembers Navy News. I think there is a big difference between training a Sailor to become an infantry soldier today v 1914. There are already hundreds of sailors who have been trained in basic infantry skills in both Afghanistan (800 Sqdn + medics) and Iraq (Junglies etc) but mobilising 3000 into an infantry role would require a bit more thought me thinks!!
  5. I'm aware of my naval history thank you, but WWI was a very different situation to that faced by our Forces in Afghanistan. Young people today didn't join the RN to be infanteers, and they weren't conscripted in, so they have nominally more rights than they did then. I see your point about there not being enough ships and too many men, but truly don't think we'll see the resurgence of the Royal Naval Division in Helmand province.
    Don't get me wrong, many RN personnel have and indeed still are serving alongside the other two services in Iraq and Afghanistan, and continue to do an outstanding job in unfamiliar and hostile conditions, but they're generally specialists, Doctors, Dentists, Medics, Logisticians, CT's or writers to name but a few. They won't, and indeed shouldn't be employed as infantry, no matter how romantic a notion the re-creation of the RN Divisions may sound to some people.
  6. I would have thought if it was going to happen it would be in a support role, security of the main bases, logistics etc.
    However even some of the support soldiers have been involved in some pretty fierce fighting.
  7. I agree with you there, and a fair point well made.
  8. Having served in the RN for over 6 years and now I am in the army i feel I can pass comment on this subject. The term ''infantry trained'' is very much over used even in the army. Everyone in serving in the army is a ''trained soldier'' some people get this confused with ''infantry trained'' beleive me there is a massive difference.Prior to deployment on operations all memebers of the army have to carry out OPTAG training which in full should be about 3 months long .Of course prior to this training as I have stated already all the soldiers are ''trained soldiers'' anyway.So who ever started this duty buzz that sailors are going out to Afgan to support the Infantry is taking out of his arrse.

    No disrespect to the RN but even the most Gung Ho gunner on a pussers war canoe is nowhere near the level to even think about supporting the ''teeth arm soldiers'' in Afgan. Of course we all know Iraq and Afgan are tri-service deployments,but it is extremely rare that non-combat service personnel will ever be put into an area where there is a chance of action. I know we have the helicopter crews but they are trained for that job and they are very very good too.
  9. To directly quote the First Sea Lord:

    'When I joined the Royal Navy I entered the door marked Navy'
    'When I leave the Royal Navy I will leave through the same Navy door, not the door now called Joint!'

    Due to the current governments disgraceful dismantling of our Armed Forces over the past ten years. The inability to recruit young people into what is no longer seen as a job with 'career' prospects, the current members of the forces will have to fight whatever war wherever with whoever is still in!!
  10. I agree with most of what you said mate, except the last bit. I was up in Al-Amarah for six months, came back April. As an Arabic Interpreter, I was out on the ground almost every day and was exposed to hostile fire on more than one occasion. During my first tour in Telic 2, I was doing the same job but based out of Basra palace, and the same was true then. It was even worse then because at least in AA we were out in warrior as opposed to Snatch.
    My relief was a CPOCT, and th guy relieving him is a WO2CT. I also knew of RN medics being sent out onto the ground, post-incident. Just two examples from my own experience, and you're exactly right, none of us was, or indeed is, anywhere near infantry trained, but i have to disagree with what you said about us not being anywhere where there is the likelihood of action. Those situations are sadly becoming more numerous.
  11. My fault through no disrespect I didnt include your trade.Of course there are CT types, air crew and a few medics that get involved in the sharp end.Of course there is no such thing as a safe place in Iraq or Afgan .My point is this, there is no role for sailors in Iraq or Afgan except those with trades that are specific for use in the AO.So the days of hundreds of sailors getting trained up to deploy to these places in support of the army are a million miles away.Squrrel if you read my post again I did say ''its extremely rare that non-combat trained service personnel will ever but put in a place where there is a chance of action'' .Meaning it happens sometimes and its far from ideal.
  12. I take it all soldiers must undergo some sort of common basic combat training prior to going off for their trade training, how long is that ?

    Remembering that all sailors have already done the basics (i.e marching ironing etc) how long would it take to put them through a basic combat course ??
  13. ok mate, fair point, and I do agree to be honest, those instances are in the minority. I agree with you totally on the infantry-trained stuff. Absolutely no way that jack could or should get in a squad and "form-square". You're right mate, it'll never happen.
  14. Damo to to pass off as a ''trained soldier'' takes about 7 weeks .Of course that course contains marching history and ironing to name but a few.Basically it makes you safe to hold a weapon and live in a military enviroment.If sailors where to deploy to Afgan to supprot the Infantry they would (I hazard a guess at this one) have to carry out full field firing on ranges including fire and manover.BFT mile and half in under 10.30 depending on age, sit ups for 2 mins ,press ups for 2 mins, Combat fitness test 8 miles in under 2 hours in full kit carrying 44lbs,NBC training, first aid training, full OPTAG package which is up to 3 months of IED training,contact drills, special weapons training (minimi FRG etc ) Bowman (comms) and the list goes on.So in short no chance of the RN deploying .Another point is who would lead this unit? you cannot have a leading hand as a section commander or a snatch commander . Just a few points there.I am not being negitive towards the RN,I am very proud of my service in it. Its just fact , they could not do it
  15. Nothing about Jack in the desert in that article.
  16. Cheers, was just curious about what it would involve, I have done some army training myself (Navigation, BFT, CFT, Weapons) so I had a rough idea that it wouldn't really be possible
  17. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    I have done some "army" training too, my annual CCS (common Core Skills) training which seems to involve: knowing how long a football pitch is? How many times I can fit that bloody stupid sling incorrectly to my SA80, being able to count to 20, choking to death in a sadist chamber, being able to carry out CPR on small child and knowing which way the barrelly thing must point so that I don't miss all my shots. I think it would require a lot of work on the part of some very patient soldiers to bring me up to the level of an Infantry Soldier, willing to give it a go though!
  18. As a J/S 1st Class RP Basic I was appointed part of the ships Internal Security Platoon where it was planned we should if required go ashore and front up the local Fuzzie Wuzzies, this being the Far East 1963. It was then decided to send us to Burma Camp near Koto Tingi in Malaya for a 2 week jungle warfare course with the Marines.

    No guesses to what happened next, upon our arrival in Kuching, Sarwarak June 1963 at the front end of the Confrontation the IS Platton was mustered, Issued with Jungle greens, high canvas boots, Machete, Lee Enfield .303 rifle 50 rounds of ammunition and loaded into a lorry. Arrive at an army camp where we are told we will split into three 10 man sections and together with two regular soldiers and a Dyak Ranger we will patrol what were considered ske or low risk areas to release real soldiers to move up to the Border and that we will be out for a minumum of two weeks being resupplied as we went.

    To be fair as a 16 year old trecking thru the jungle with a real ammo and rifle staying overnight in Dyak villages were a great game at the time.

    If they want to they will.

  19. Really enjoyed my weapons training, the Army has a different attitude to weapons compared to the RN ! (Rightly so)
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page