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Safers! Why is a booty in the back of a SAR cab?

tentoes

War Hero
Thanks TT. So how come me is in the back? Is this role opened up to........?

Ex SAR diver mate (who is not happy with the situation obviously), moved onto the dark side when they binned the branch, he said to me its now an aircrew billet. I assume they are required to do a standard divers course before taking on the role?


However I will standby for correction.......
 

tentoes

War Hero
You didn't mention he was up for "most outstanding sailor"! I bet his phone is off and email/FB account are getting hammered! :eek:ccasion1:
 

frogman007

War Hero
Ex SAR diver mate (who is not happy with the situation obviously), moved onto the dark side when they binned the branch, he said to me its now an aircrew billet. I assume they are required to do a standard divers course before taking on the role?


However I will standby for correction.......


Thanks oppo, makes sense.
 

sardeeps

Badgeman
RM's have ben involved in Naval Aviation since its inception, there was an RM Officer trainee pilot with Bell Davies' on No1 course at Eastchurch c1909 and an RM major was CO of a Sea Skua Sqdn during the Norwegian campaign in WW2. When I joined 807 Sqdn (Scimitars) as a bombhead in 1960, 800 Sqdn, also embarked aboard 'Ark Royal' with us, had a Lt RM pilot; so why not back seat crew too? Don't think there's any connection between this guy and SAR Divers. Don't forget that SAR Divers were Aircrewmen too and spent probably at least 50% of their airborne time in an aircrewman role. I think there was a bootneck SAR Diver up to the cessation of the branch, not sure though. Hope that might clear up any confusion.
 

scouse

War Hero
Would have been Wildman-Lushington (spot white) and I.T.Courtney both marines. Also the instructors Major Gordon and Major Gerrard RMLI....quote from Sailor in the Air :blank:
 
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sardeeps

Badgeman
Exactly Scouse; without digging out 'Sailor in the Air'; great man, great book, virtually a history of the RNAS and FAA. I think the unfortunate 'Spot White' was killed by walking into a propeller. He was possibly the first of many similar tragedies.
 

Guns

War Hero
Moderator
I'm sure there are no more SAR divers. As to SAR winchmen/women/welsh I am sure that is now open to all aircrew.

Booties now do aircrewman in the back of the Junglies and it is a recognised trade for them (like Sig, Chef, ML and dressmaker).
 

scouse

War Hero
SAR divers branch ceased in 07. But they must surely need to have a change of mind, when operating a plane guard helicopter from the new carrier at fixed wing flying stations!!!!!! :neutral:
 

tentoes

War Hero
RM's have ben involved in Naval Aviation since its inception, there was an RM Officer trainee pilot with Bell Davies' on No1 course at Eastchurch c1909 and an RM major was CO of a Sea Skua Sqdn during the Norwegian campaign in WW2. When I joined 807 Sqdn (Scimitars) as a bombhead in 1960, 800 Sqdn, also embarked aboard 'Ark Royal' with us, had a Lt RM pilot; so why not back seat crew too? Don't think there's any connection between this guy and SAR Divers. Don't forget that SAR Divers were Aircrewmen too and spent probably at least 50% of their airborne time in an aircrewman role. I think there was a bootneck SAR Diver up to the cessation of the branch, not sure though. Hope that might clear up any confusion.

There isn't, RM aircrew doing the SAR job thats all. my poor England added to confusion. The Ex SAR Diver I refered to put his papers in, (went to the dark side) had dripped to me about the branch ending and it becoming a purely aircrew billet.
 

Waspie

War Hero
Right guys to set a few things straight.

SAR Divers were all members of the Aircrewman Branch. The branch was split between the various roles, mainly, AS12 Missile Aimer, now defunct. ASW (pingers), Commando, SAR Diver. A small number of aircrewman were selected to be communications aircrew, they were the chaps who would fly in the Navy's Herons and Devons.

As nearly all naval helicopters were required to carry out SAR duties. All aircrewmen and now women are trained in SAR techniques. With the loss of pilots after launching or recovering to FW carriers it was decided to train some in the SAR Diver role to assist in aircrew rescue.

Most major air stations used the duty SAR helicopter, primarily for the rescue of its own aircraft, to assist with civil SAR. This task eventually 'took off' and was funded by the old DTI. When SAR divers were lost for good, the SAR role remained, That fell upon the crewman to take on the role of winchman, (dope on a rope/winch weight), and paramedic on dedicated SAR duties. 771 Squadron. (Gannet detachment).

With the diversity of operations and the merging of certain roles with the armed forces it was obviously a natural progression for Commando trained aircrew to work alongside their cousins in the RM. RM aircrewman taking up more jobs within the larger Commando Assault Groups. Having now been trained in the RN Commando Seaking a transfer to SAR Seakings' was again a natural progression. RM aircrew are prolific on 847 NAS.

My own personal belief is the RM felt the loss of 3 Brigade Air Squadron and the forces needed the expertise they provided in support of Marine and naval ops.
 

tentoes

War Hero
Right guys to set a few things straight.

SAR Divers were all members of the Aircrewman Branch. The branch was split between the various roles, mainly, AS12 Missile Aimer, now defunct. ASW (pingers), Commando, SAR Diver. A small number of aircrewman were selected to be communications aircrew, they were the chaps who would fly in the Navy's Herons and Devons.

As nearly all naval helicopters were required to carry out SAR duties. All aircrewmen and now women are trained in SAR techniques. With the loss of pilots after launching or recovering to FW carriers it was decided to train some in the SAR Diver role to assist in aircrew rescue.

Most major air stations used the duty SAR helicopter, primarily for the rescue of its own aircraft, to assist with civil SAR. This task eventually 'took off' and was funded by the old DTI. When SAR divers were lost for good, the SAR role remained, That fell upon the crewman to take on the role of winchman, (dope on a rope/winch weight), and paramedic on dedicated SAR duties. 771 Squadron. (Gannet detachment).

With the diversity of operations and the merging of certain roles with the armed forces it was obviously a natural progression for Commando trained aircrew to work alongside their cousins in the RM. RM aircrewman taking up more jobs within the larger Commando Assault Groups. Having now been trained in the RN Commando Seaking a transfer to SAR Seakings' was again a natural progression. RM aircrew are prolific on 847 NAS.

My own personal belief is the RM felt the loss of 3 Brigade Air Squadron and the forces needed the expertise they provided in support of Marine and naval ops.

So he is in fact RM aircrew doing the SAR job.........
Thank God we got that straight :grin:
 
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scouse

War Hero
But the booty SAR aircrewman can never ever don BASAR breathing apparatus air search and rescue or BCD buoyancy control device. Or recover dead Fred from the seabed 30 metres down, as he is not qualified to do so:angel5: sardeeps will be along shortly:laughing1:
 

TeddyT

Badgeman
Both RN and RM aircrew come under the same FAA appointer/drafter, with both services eligible for any FAA billet. The FAA looks towards both services for their different expertise, but also listen to the individuals preference. There was even a booty piloting in a 815 cab for a bit. No squadron flies with just aircrew from one service, both for front and back seat roles. This is why you get matelots on 847, and bootys on 771 (haven't heard of a green pinger yet though). Both front and back seat aircrew from all aircraft can request, and usually have the opportunity, to change aircraft fleet and move into a different role.
The SAR winchmen do no dive training now, indeed 771 doesn't even have any dive kit anymore. There are still some CPOACMN and WOACMN who were SAR divers before it was scrapped, but that's the same as saying we still have Harrier pilots.
 

tentoes

War Hero
But the booty SAR aircrewman can never ever don BASAR breathing apparatus air search and rescue or BCD buoyancy control device. Or recover dead Fred from the seabed 30 metres down, as he is not qualified to do so:angel5: sardeeps will be along shortly:laughing1:

Ah so he's not RM aircrew doing the SAR job?......:sleepy3:


Would there not be Divers for that sort of thing? Don't get me wrong, I can see the point of having SAR Divers, the RN obviously couldn't. So they must have a solution, right?
 
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