S. Times: "Cutbacks for both the Royal Navy and the RAF"


War Hero
Does this now mean Stop the Falklands patrols, Hunting for Somali pirates,#free trafficing of drugs in the Windies, None of which are involved with Afghanistan? 2nd rate policies from an uneducated 2nd rate government :evil:
Just scrap the RAF, the Army and Navy could do all its jobs anyway. Admittedly we'd have to find someone new to take the p1ss out off but hey, we'd cope.


Lantern Swinger
There have been already and will be more to come of these types of stories. It is, again, the shortsightedness of the UK politican system (running on a five year cycle) set against long term planning of UK services. Twas always the way.

Remember dragging all the kit out of mothballs when it kicked off in the South Atlantic? At least back then we could afford the mothballs, it's likely we'd have to flog off the kit rather than store it. How much are mothballs these days?

Tell you what, let's work from 0800 Monday through to 1200 Fridays. Only. No weekends, unless it's sport, no PR visits, and Navy Days next time is during the school holidays on a weekday. The RAF (who work the above hours already) should stop all this airshow nonsense and only have one national show a year and the Dead Sparrows fly only for special national occasions, not every other weekend. That'll keep the costs down.

Sarcasm aside, in the same newspaper, there are reports of a spat with the Treasury over kit for Afghanistan.
So it's not enough that the Naval Service, the smallest of our Armed Services, has managed to provide over 50 percent of British forces on land and in the air over Afghanistan on two occasions during the past five years as well as performing all its other worldwide roles at sea. We've been here before with near disastrous consequences. This pasage is from 'The Torpedomen HMS Vernon's Story 1872 - 1986' by Rear Admiral Nicho Poland CB CBE:

The Torpedomen" by RA E. N. Poland CB CBE said:
...Naval policy makers and planners, therefore, were facing a more complicated and difficult situation than ever before. The types of forces they had to consider, and the kinds of threats against which they had to plan, were becoming more diverse. Providing all the necessary equipment would be expensive and obtaining resources difficult.

Only nine months later, on 15 August 1919, the Cabinet decreed that in the next financial year, the three services should base their estimates on the assumption 'that the British Empire would not be engaged in any great wars during the next ten years'. As Roskill opined:

This rule, which was wholly empirical and was not based on any scientific data, was to exert profound influence on all aspects of naval policy for the next decade and more.

Worse, it was:

...in 1929 made automatically self-perpetuating i.e. on any given day it was to be assumed that no major war would take place for ten years.

This ludicrous notion was not abolished until late in 1932.

Most of us here recognise the need for continuous training to maintain core skills. In recent years, realistic training for RN ships and crews between live operations has been pared to the bone. One global deployment per year like TAURUS enables at least some major units to maintain and develop their core skills and operational capabilities in all types of environment (climatic as well as 'combined' and 'joint'), enabling them to be shared with the rest of the Fleet. Don't underestimate the amount of valuable above water, surface and underwater warfare weapons training, intelligence gathering, operational analysis, tactical development, disaster relief and international military liaison that goes on behind the scenes. UK plc gains much through Defence Diplomacy too. The benefits may seem obscure to many, especially politicians, but they are certainly there in abundance.

Warships and submarines are like aircraft and aircrews but on a much larger scale. If they aren't used regularly in testing circumstance, they and their systems quickly fall into disrepair (and disrepute) and personnel at all levels rapidly lose their cohesion and edge, not to mention their interest. The results would soon manifest themselves in the best people voting with their feet.


I however believe that those who seek and fulfil a career in politics are not capable of rational sentient thought. You get highly logical people and highly political people. Sadly, it always seems (irrespective of the possibility of journalistic slants and scaremongering) the ones who have the most sway on policy seem to have a very political mindset, mutually exclusive with those of a logical mindset who may be better suited to steer the country right but lack the traditional political power-hungry edge.

You know yourself, YOU have enough intellectual capacity to make a decision that would benefit a majority or improve an existing system. But you can't be arsed seeing it through as you lack the political urge for the power/responsibility involved or are simply content in your current position. Enjoy the back benches as the 'big boys' et al. slap egos and dribble nonsense, lamenting for the state of the nation!

Myself, I love sweeping generalisations dripping in skepticism minus thorough research :lol:


War Hero
How many more cutbacks can the armed forces have ?. I can see it now the Royal Navy will be left with a couple of inflatable dingies, no paddles as that would mean spending money, we will have to get back to using sails. The R.A.F will have to make paper airaplanes out of used newspapers and just patrol the airspace in front of them and the Army will just have to arm them selfs with battons or rolled up news papers.


I remember in 1981 our deployment being cut because of cutbacks to save fuel costs etc... Only for the Iranian revolution, the Ayotollah gaining power, and a load of 'Elmers' being taken hostage. Again two years later we nearly sold the 'Invincible' to save money just when we needed it most. We can make cuts now but if the Iranians try to close the Straits of Hormuz after the Elmers/Israelies destroy their nuclear plants we will need every ship and aircraft we have got. This bunch of 'Biffs' in charge have no concept of the crap they can land us in, we should leave the Afghans in the stone age and blow **** out of them if they harbour terrorists again. This country is leaving itself wide open in the future to a huge pile of trouble. I absolutely hate shortsighted politicians with no armed forces experience and can't wait for the general election but fear we will exchange like for like. Rant over.