Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by percey99, Sep 6, 2006.

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  1. Is it right , that servicemen who did less than 22 years service who left the RN before 1976 cannot get any pension , even though they will have been paying since the age of 18 and when they left the service ? If this is true then these men and women have been SEEN OFF ???? ... I have pay chits from HMS CENTURIAN saying Pension has been deducted ??? Who has had my money ? AND YOURS ??? they must have made millions out of us ???
  2. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    If you left the RN between 1953 (?) and 1976 you get no pension.

  3. I seem to remember the "Blue Liar" stating quite clearly, when I joined up in 62, that if you did 22 years you would be elligible for a pension, if you didn't you wouldn't get one.
    Also that when you signed up it was for 9 and 3. Nine years full time and three years reserve. Any time served before your 18th birthday was deducted from your reserve time.
    Simple really, you signed the papers back then. No 22 years, no pensh!
    Sad, but a fact.
  4. Well I never knew that , so glad I joined in 71 and left in 95 , that pension comes in handy so many times , :roll:
  5. You mean you actually have some left after it being taxed as 'unearned income' 8O
  6. Yup, me too :)
  7. I completed LS2 and qualify for mine next April, however, the info I have been given is that I will be lucky to see much of it for the reason I stated above. It is counted as 'unearned income' by the taxman, and I am in full employment.
  8. You are the lucky though, the new regs for pensions have really shafted new joiners. It makes me sick because I always believed that the military pension was not just a pension but also compensated you for two things:

    1) Many people being kicked out at 40 or so.

    2) Entering the housing market at 40 or so.

    It is sickening to hear politicians say they support our soldiers/sailors/airmen etc while turning around and in effect giving a massive cut to their entitlements.

    Those joining now will receive a much reduced pension when they retire, and will not be able to claim most of it until post 60 (or 65??). That would be fine, but I always beleived that part of the package of military pay was agreeing to not get a great pay packet, but have an excellent pension. The pension has been reduced, but there is no rise in pay.
  9. When I joined up in 59
    And laid my life down on the line
    I don’t remember being told
    You’re alright son, you won’t grow old

    At age 15 I took the shilling
    Was young, naive and very willing
    It’s boys time first, they said to me
    Now pack your kit and get to sea.

    At age 16 I went to war
    A` fighting with the gunboat “Thorâ€
    On seas that froze hard on the deck
    But I was young so “what the heckâ€

    At age 17 and far from home
    A kitbag holding all I owned
    Punching sprayers in the gloom
    Of a Frigates boiler room

    At age 18 I start the job
    Welcome son, you’re in the mob
    Your time starts now, so tell you what
    In 2 years time you’ll get a tot


    At 27 with life unfurled
    I’d been two times around the world
    “Thank you son, now you can go
    Here’s something that you need to knowâ€

    Your 12 years in was really 9
    with 3 years taken off your time
    No pension rights, you’ve got no clout.
    Please close the door on your way out

    Of course back then I didn’t see
    As I was just a big OD
    Now as their lordships sit and scoff
    I realise they seen me off.

    boo hoo
  10. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    :lol: :lol:
  11. As a someone who did 62-74 and has no pension can you lend me 10 bob from yours. :roll:
  12. Exactly! Same position for all public sector workers. I wrote to my MP (John Horam) about this precise point last year and got the standard Ministerial letter back which ignored the question completely and instead consisted of government spin - paid for by the taxpayer! My employer has said for years that we get low pay in return for generous pensions upon retirement. Now they want to renege on this. The Tories are talking about going even futher and converting the nominal value of our pensions into capital and making us invest in private pensions - or at least that is the logic of their rhetoric. Where will this capital come from if the state cannot afford it? Will it truly reflect the promises made to us, or will it be another stitch up?

    Incidentally I'm sorry about those of you not entitled to a pension despite having worked & contributed to it. That's disgraceful! I remember reading about this on Godfrey Dykes website - quite astonishing. Politicians won't change the rules though - it would establish a precident for all the other groups of workers who have been discriminated against over the years by unfair pensions law and be very costly indeed. The crucial question is, were you told that you would receive a pension when you joined after completing you standard contract of 12 years from the age of 15 or did you simply take it as given? Was there any specific mention about the pension and its terms in the naval contract you signed, and have the navy broken their part of that contract?

    Poem excellent and thought provoking... :D
  13. Harryaitch wrote
    Nah! But I'll buy you a pint next year at the reunion in Blackpool:wink:
  14. BZ and 10/10 Uncle Albert.
  15. YES LADS we are being seen off ??? I have actually got pay chits from HMS CENTURIAN with PENSION deducted ?? who has had my money ????
  16. I was well aware that I would have to complete 22years to recieve a pension.But I dont recall being told by any official means,only by already serving members.Still at 15 pension talk was not high on the agenda.

    But changing the rules at a later date and not including those from the pre change period is a bit of a con.
  17. But before the introduction of the "military salary" in 1975, and enrollment in AFPS75, didn't you all pay no income tax? And if the T&Cs pre-75 said that no pension was payable unless you did 22 years, why is there a problem if someone with 9 yrs gets no pension?

    I'm not being harsh, but it seems fairly black and white to me.
  18. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    I agree, however there are cases in the past where a contract has been overturned since in the light of today's society it is "unfair"; I'm thinking of the specific case where women who became pregant had to leave the service - this was what they signed up for, yet a few years down the line they are taking their case to court and winning. Personally, I think if someone has served and more importantly paid an element of their salary towards a pension, then they should be entitled to a pension. Another example of the PC brigade changing the rules when it suits them!
  19. Ah yes Hairyaitch, but that's what they always do with pensions - for everybody. I'm in the same boat with regards to getting pensions provision for a same sex partner. I've been paying towards my pension for 25 years but I would have to (a) prove my partner was financially dependent upon my pension and, (b) even then, they would only get my pension contributions going back 2 years (to date, so far) since same sex partners have become "entitled". I am not entitled to get a penny of my widow's contributions back from previous years! If I married there would be no problem. Had they allowed gays to marry there would have been no problem. With civil partnerships we get stung - and I'm afraid that is one of the reasons why they remain a substandard alternative for some of us.

    Still I think you've all be treated shabbily. Perhaps the British Legion should try pursuading all single public sector workers with nobody to leave their pension death benefit/pension lump sum in the event of dying before drawing pension - to nominate a serviceman! Or is this suggestion completely unrealistic? :oops:

    Geoffrey, you make a good point - but as a teenager you usually don't worry about what seems like a lifetime away! :lol:

    Flagwagger - this has got nothing to do with the PC brigate - easy to scapegoat I know - it's to do with successive governments of all political hues avoiding their moral obligations to their workforce and reneging on prior understandings - point scoring for cheap headlines. The Tories did it and Labour are now doing it. You do make a very good point though. The issue of pregnancies however had only arisen because it breached Human Rights law. Since compliance with the Human Rights Convention is a condition of Membership of the EU the government had to comply with the ruling of the Strasbourg Court (in this case). The question is, could ex-Servicemen present a similar case, that this breached their/your human rights?

    It might conceivaly do so, if you could find an article that had been contravened. The most obvious thing that comes to mind is would a Wren at that time be entitled to a pension for the equivalent duration of service for which you are being denied a pension? If so then it would constitute discrimination on grounds of gender. IE: Is there a contractually equivalent group to yourselves who were treated more favourably because they were female?

    For those who joined below the age of 18 there is the question of whether a minor can consent to an unreasonable contract, though testing this would be highly contentious. You would need to establish that this was unreasonable. Can a minor (for legal purposes) fully understand the significance of signing a contract which precludes them receiving a pension whilst binding them to service? I know you lot thought you were men when you joined at 15, but legally you were children!

    Just a thought.


    I'll take cover now! :wink:
  20. So who didnt pay income tax prior to 75 i certainley did

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