Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Royal Brunei BAe Corvettes

I believe that these are still sitting alongside at Scotstoun next to the Type 45s being kitted out. Is there any news on the case of the Brunei Government paying up for them?

If the Brunei Navy doesn't take them, should the Royal Navy acquire them?Would the the Royal Navy acquire them? Despite being classed as Corvettes they seem to be quite capable, and in my mind might be well suited to Anti-Piracy and ship protection operations in the Med, or am I talking gash there?

Either way, opinions on the Navy and Corvettes, perhaps we should had a BAe F2000 instead of a River Class for the Falklands tasking?
 

dunkers

War Hero
If you can find the money in the budget to buy and maintain them, if Brunei doesn't, then perhaps the RN might buy them. Otherwise not.
 

trehorn2

Lantern Swinger
I'll start passing the hat around.

I have 25p, a button and a key which i have no idea what it fits.

Anyone else care to contribute?
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Ho ho ho. Anybody thought to enquire why the Sultan of Brunei (among the richest men in the world) hasn't paid up for them? Perhaps it might be something to do with a number of "alleged" faults including severe aft end vibration, being 400 tonnes overweight (on a 2000te tonne target displacement!), not meeting speed, endurance, stability etc.....

AIUI, it has been talked about in MoD and we have had a very lucky escape. What precisely would we use a ship with very limited range for these days - permanent perisher target?
 

trehorn

War Hero
Not_a_boffin said:
Ho ho ho. Anybody thought to enquire why the Sultan of Brunei (among the richest men in the world) hasn't paid up for them? Perhaps it might be something to do with a number of "alleged" faults including severe aft end vibration, being 400 tonnes overweight (on a 2000te tonne target displacement!), not meeting speed, endurance, stability etc.....

Sounds perfect if you ask me?
 
I'll take that as a no then?

Anyone know what these "faults" are? The Government has already backed the sale, for export, so they should have been aware that they may have had to pay for them. Is it more likely then that we will see it sold to a different country, would that be the best option for the UK, despite the fact that many countries are beginning to build more Corvettes?
 

stumpy

War Hero
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/

The above link has some interesting details of these ships. A point to bear in mind is that (and I stand by to be corrected) as usual the order for these ships would have been guaranteed by the government, so if Brunei walks away then we will pay for them anyway. So, as long as it does not come out of the defence buget but out of trade or whatever, why not use them? Didn't we do the same thing with the Type 21s?

Are these shps as capable as a Type 23? No. But they have a ship's company of 79. Why not permanently base one in the Caribbean alongside the RFA tanker. You could maintian her under contract (like the River Class) and leave her there permanently. Also, why not leave one in Gibralter to provide security for that vital chokepoint and the western Med, North Africa etc. And while we are at it, leave one in the Gulf as well. Not to replace frigates/destroyer deployments, but as a low cost supplement that will be there year in year out, revolving the crews back to the UK.

Just an idea. It seems crazy to waste these, especially if the government is going to pay for them anyway, as I expect.
 

F169

War Hero
stumpy said:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/

Didn't we do the same thing with the Type 21s?

Er...no! AS wikipedia says: The class was designed to fulfil a requirement for a relatively cheap yet modern general purpose escort vessel to fill a projected gap in the number of escort hulls in the fleet. Many older vessels were rapidly approaching the end of their useful lives yet their replacements, the Type 42 destroyer and Type 22 frigate, would not be ready until the mid-to-late 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_21_frigate

The type 21 was a superb design (except for its aluminium superstructure) which served the RN superbly well. They were in reality the first lean manned ships I reckon. I think the only time the RN has done what you describe was with the old HMS Mermaid, a ship originally built for Ghana.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Having been aboard the lead ship, I can guarantee you that no "waste" would be involved. I'm with Amazon's comment, these ain't 21-style vessels, they're much more like Mermaid. Anyone care to hazard a guess on the messing arrangements and the noise levels therein? You'd also need a tanker just to get the thing over to WIGS station with acceptable stability (allegedly).

I know HMG likes nothing better than paying BAES money for old rope, but I'm not entirely sure they're contractually liable to bail them out this time. Still, once British Shipbuilders (Warship Division) stands up again (rumour says next week), then I'm sure this power house of design excellence will have no problem producing world-class designs for export.....Or should they just have left that to VT who know what they're doing?
 
You've hit the nail on the head, n_a_b. BAE Systems are useless twunts when it comes to building anything. VT are very capable when it comes to building small ships. I sincerely hope that when ShipCo stands up, VT managers get the T45 and BAE managers get their P45s. Do see what I did there? ;)
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
geoffrey said:
You've hit the nail on the head, n_a_b. BAE Systems are useless twunts when it comes to building anything. VT are very capable when it comes to building small ships. I sincerely hope that when ShipCo stands up, VT managers get the T45 and BAE managers get their P45s. Do see what I did there? ;)


No votes in Pompey, lots of votes in Barrow and Glasgow = VT gets screwed
 

Sooty

Badgeman
I don't know alot about ship building but i'm not really sure where some of the comments posted about BAE come from.

What i do know is that the less ships we order the more they will cost, common sense really. The less time we spend at the design stage the more changes will happen during the construction phase. Companies come in as cheap as possible at tender stage and the only way to make money is to add it on to the variations. I think people sometimes forget that Britains ship buidling industry is not what it was. The fact that there are few ship building companies in the UK makes the industry less competetive.

I'm not aware of any serious problems with any of the ships that have been constructed by BAE but i stand to be corrected by people in a better position to comment.
 
F169 said:
stumpy said:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/

Didn't we do the same thing with the Type 21s?


The type 21 was a superb design (except for its aluminium superstructure) which served the RN superbly well. They were in reality the first lean manned ships I reckon. I think the only time the RN has done what you describe was with the old HMS Mermaid, a ship originally built for Ghana.

Naw loads of time HMS Swifsure and Triumph two battleships being built for Chile in 1903 taken over by the RN to prevent them being sold on to the Russians who were having a spate with the Japs. 3 or 4 boats being built for Turkey in WW11 were taken over and given P Numbers instead of names. Possibly others I have no knowledge of.

Nutty
 
Sooty said:
I don't know alot about ship building but i'm not really sure where some of the comments posted about BAE come from.

What i do know is that the less ships we order the more they will cost, common sense really. The less time we spend at the design stage the more changes will happen during the construction phase. Companies come in as cheap as possible at tender stage and the only way to make money is to add it on to the variations. I think people sometimes forget that Britains ship buidling industry is not what it was. The fact that there are few ship building companies in the UK makes the industry less competetive.

I'm not aware of any serious problems with any of the ships that have been constructed by BAE but i stand to be corrected by people in a better position to comment.

The way we buy things is often crap. there can be serious disconects between the user the specifier the purchaser and the manufacturer. At the end the manufacturer makes what the purchaser is paying for and the user gets something that is not what he really wanted so blames the manufacturer. Competitive tendering can be good but has it's down sides and does not always save money although it never buys you a Rolls at any price.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Sooty

I am a shipbuilder, (although not at the minute) and although there are numerous instances of BAE doing what you say and attempting to make the money on contract variations, there are also many, many examples of them stuffing things up royally. Missing the target displacement on the Brunei ships is not due to trying it on on variations, it's due to incompetence. There are numerous horror stories on CVF (although to be fair to BAE, not exclusively down to them) that will come out in the wash later. Albion (which had massive amounts spent on detail design) still managed to have a criminally low pre-outfit and outfit level by the time it was built and of course had the famous IP23 fit throughout the engine room HV electrics - great for firefighting clearly!

Your points regarding the size and competetiveness of what remains are also well made, although institutionalising this in British Shipbuilders Warship Division (to be reborn imminently) is unlikely to help. MoD actually needs to order more ships of different classes to boost design and build throughput, though in the current climate that ain't going to happen....
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Not_a_boffin said:
MoD actually needs to order more ships of different classes to boost design and build throughput, though in the current climate that ain't going to happen....


Methinks giving up and just buying proven designs might be a better bet. That MEKO 200 design the RAN chose for their ANZAC class Frigates looks pretty decent.
 

snorko

Lantern Swinger
Now we have a potential use for these tubs sitting on the clyde. Ship them out to the north end of the gulf. They have a shallower draught than a T22 etc and the iranians would think twice about having a pop then!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
MoD_RSS Mental health toolkit rolled out across entire Royal Navy fleet MoD News 0
B WW2 Royal Records The Corps 9
MoD_RSS Employers on Norwegian Exercise with Royal Marines MoD News 0
G Royal Navy Marine Engineer Professional Training Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 17
MoD_RSS Royal Navy seizes £11 million worth of drugs in Arabian Sea MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Landmark moment for UK pensions as Bill receives Royal Assent MoD News 0
G WW2 service in Royal Navy Questions History 7
MoD_RSS Coronavirus testing facility opens at Royal Mint MoD News 0
MoD_RSS £230 million contract to bolster Royal Navy torpedoes MoD News 0
M Questions regarding the Royal Navy Medical Officer Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 3
B royal fleet auxiliary training Joining the Royal Navy 4
MoD_RSS The Secretary of State has appointed Sir Mark Walport as the Royal Society’s Trustee for the British Museum. MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Statutory Instrument on Royal Navy Police enforcement powers MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Private International Law Bill gains Royal Assent MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Red letter day for Royal Navy in Scotland MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Royal Navy warships monitor significant Russian presence close to UK waters MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Security Minister speech to the Royal United Services Institute MoD News 0
MoD_RSS World-class autonomous minehunters to protect Royal Navy MoD News 1
AccessHeritage Royal Navy's Use of The Infernal Machine History 19
MoD_RSS Royal Navy warship sails into Arctic Circle for High North operation MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Royal Mail to collect COVID-19 test kits 7 days a week MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Immigration Act receives Royal Assent: free movement to end on 31 December 2020 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK Royal Navy concludes first joint exercises with Egypt MoD News 0
Rai999 Permanently medically unfit ( Royal marine commando Joining the Royal Navy 4
N royal navy medical appeal alcohol Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 4
MoD_RSS Royal Marines train with cutting-edge autonomous technology in Cyprus MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Helen’s Law receives Royal Assent MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Royal Appointment of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Prisons MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Sentencing Code granted Royal Assent MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Royal Navy seizes over 450kg in the largest methamphetamine drug bust in the Middle East MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New partnership with The Alan Turing Institute and Royal Statistical Society to support Joint Biosecurity Centre COVID-19 response MoD News 0
soleil FB: National Museum Of The Royal Navy: 215th Anniversary Of The Battle Of Trafalgar History 2
soleil FB: Royal Navy And Royal Marines Charity - Hosting Your Own Trafalgar Night/Pickle Night Dinner History 2
soleil Express: "Submarine Sparks Panic In Scotland As Onlookers Mistake Royal Navy Exercise For Fire" Submariners 2
sampost Jubilee Sailing Trust announces pioneering collaboration with the Royal Navy Sports and Adventure Training 2
soleil Royal Navy Recipients In The Queen's Birthday Honours List 2020 Current Affairs 2
soleil Royal Marines Charity: "Mark Ormrod Awarded MBE" The Corps 1
soleil Daily Mail: "Proud Dad Gordon Ramsay Reveals Son Jack, 20, Has Joined The Royal Marines" The Corps 5
soleil FB: Royal Navy And Royal Marines Charity: World Uckers Championship 2020 The Fleet 1
soleil The Times: "Life On The Ocean Wave: The Royal Navy Photographic Awards" The Fleet 1
soleil BBC: "HMS Queen Elizabeth: On board The Royal Navy's New Aircraft Carrier" The Fleet 0
MoD_RSS Royal Navy seize £160 million worth of drugs in the Caribbean MoD News 1
soleil NWE Mail: "Barrow Built Submarine Becomes Inaugural Winner Of A New Royal Navy Commendation" Submariners 2
soleil New Badge For Trainee Royal Navy Submariners Submariners 18
M Royal Navy interviews Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 1
D Royal Navy Handymen The Fleet 21
MoD_RSS Royal Air Force A400M showcased in Kazakhstan MoD News 0
B how to find service number royal navy Site Issues 7
soleil FB: The Bands Of HM Royal Marines:: The 31st Anniversary Of The Deal Barracks Bombing The Corps 2
soleil P. News: "Royal Navy's HMS Sultan Forced To Cancel Popular Fireworks Due To Covid-19" Bases / Shore Est 4
Similar threads


















































Latest Threads

Top