Rob Hoole Letter

wardmaster said:
Maxi_77 said:
Or perhaps the rantings of a passed over Lt Cdr, every big wardroom has at least one sitting in the corner moaning away into his beer or in my day pink gin about how the mob was not what it had been.

You have no idea if he was passed over or not so please don't surmise. He was more likely to have been an SD officer whose ceiling was Cdr and who didn't quite make it because of age. If a GL officer (as was) had as many selective promotions as an SD Lt Cdr, that GL would have made Admiral.

You are of course quite right, although one could suggest that some one who has failed to reach their 'ceiling' has effectively been passed over.
 

Karma

War Hero
wardmaster said:
.....an SD officer whose ceiling was Cdr and who didn't quite make it because of age.

It appears that more and more frequently Acting Cdr is being used, rather than making the substantive promotion.
 
silverfox said:
wardmaster said:
Maxi_77 said:
Or perhaps the rantings of a passed over Lt Cdr, every big wardroom has at least one sitting in the corner moaning away into his beer or in my day pink gin about how the mob was not what it had been.

You have no idea if he was passed over or not so please don't surmise. He was more likely to have been an SD officer whose ceiling was Cdr and who didn't quite make it because of age. If a GL officer (as was) had as many selective promotions as an SD Lt Cdr, that GL would have made Admiral.

Maxi - I know what you mean. Shame you have no Naval service or experience yourself.......

Ah but I have which is why I recognised the type.
 

UncleAlbert

War Hero
silverfox said:
WM - I think to sit and point the finger at the Service is a little narrow - what the good Lt Cdr points out is actually true across the country as a whole, and despite your best intentions, the Services and other Public Sector organisations have no choice but to reflect that society.

With respect…..before a particular situation can be addressed...

You first have to accept that the situation exists…..
 

Salty_Dog

Badgeman
wardmaster said:
You have no idea if he was passed over or not so please don't surmise. He was more likely to have been an SD officer whose ceiling was Cdr and who didn't quite make it because of age. If a GL officer (as was) had as many selective promotions as an SD Lt Cdr, that GL would have made Admiral.
Not quite true now Wardmaster although was 10 years ago. Assuming you are or were a Wardmaster, you will know that there is currently a serving Commodore (MS) (and a Captain with several Commanders)

BTW I concur with the sentiments in Rob Hoole's letter and his first paragraph reflects, in the main, my reasons for leaving the Service
 
letthecatoutofthebag said:
Rob Hoole was a Diver of some description (don't know if he was SD or GL) and is now vice chairman of the RN MCDO Association. I have read some of his work elsewhere though I am not entirely sure of his background - but I think he may be of the generation of officers caught between the end of the Long Courses and the start of the PWOs. Depending on the choices he made he may have limited his career options and therefore promotion opportunites would have become very limited.

Quite right. Rob Hoole was a 'deep' specialist SL (Supplementary List) MCD officer whose ceiling, like SDs, was Cdr. He was probably the last SL to command a warship (HUNT Class MCMV HMS Berkeley - now HNS Kalisto in the Greek Navy). While he retired on age, that doesn't change the sense of his letter which was heavily edited - I have seen it in full on the Naval Review website. He is Vice Chairman and webmaster for the MCD Officers' Association www.mcdoa.org.uk. A quick Google reveals that he has also written for several RN-related publications and websites including the RN Minewarfare & Diving magazine, the Naval Review, Warship World, the Nautical Institute journal Seaways (he is Vice Chairman of the Solent Branch), the Institute of Explosives Engineers journal and the Ton Class Association's magazine 'Ton Talk' among others.
 
Rob's right. The RN has gone down the pan, you only have to look at the scruffy, unfit lard arses on Pusser's Greys these days to see that - and the male Ratings are not much better!

I thought they'd struck a low point when the troops were issued with tacky 'Royal Navy' tags for wear on woolie pullies to avoid being mistaken for £1.90 per hour security guards (the MOD could have stopped Securicor from copying RN uniform, but they probably thought they were being paid a compliment), but now we know the truth, thanks to the Conwall incompetents. The tags are to prevent real villans thinking that the security guards are sailors who would run away at the first hint of a 'blag'.

Perhaps the money given by the media for those toe curling, cringingly pathetic little stories should be used to construct a giant White Feather which can be rammed *********** of the First Sea Lord!
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
I agree with the author's sentiment - but why has it taken him 4 years to publish his feelings? His decision to leave was obviously not an overnight, knee-jerk reaction; so what did he do about the state of the RN while he was still serving? :?
 

Scouse_Scribes

Lantern Swinger
sgtpepperband said:
I agree with the author's sentiment - but why has it taken him 4 years to publish his feelings? His decision to leave was obviously not an overnight, knee-jerk reaction; so what did he do about the state of the RN while he was still serving? :?

Its taken something like the Cornwall incident to make him angry enough to write something like this letter. What was he going to do whilst he was still serving???? storm whitehall and take the first sea lord hostage and demand a return to the old ways. A two and a half coming to the end of his career has got about as much chance of changing the state of the RN as I have of becoming a catwalk model.

IMHO though he has hit the nail on the head. I was on a level II first aid course at Raleigh in December and I couldn't believe the way things have changed in training, trainees wandering around the establishment, instructors not allowed to chastise them in case it offends someone. Tis a rapid slide down the wrong slope. I'm afraid our Mr bean from the Cornwall is the tip of the iceberg
 
silverfox said:
WM - I think to sit and point the finger at the Service is a little narrow - what the good Lt Cdr points out is actually true across the country as a whole, and despite your best intentions, the Services and other Public Sector organisations have no choice but to reflect that society.

Perhaps the biggest issue I have noticed is that very very few join the RN with the intention of making it their sole career. Those days have gone, in the same way that nobody joins their local bank as a junior cashier with the ambition of one day making branch manager. we could go back to the out moded ways of 'when I were a boy'..... but then we would have no sailors at all.

Its a tough situation and I can empathise with those looking in from the outside and trying to view the modern navy against the yardsticks of thier time, which have long since gone.

The only thing that gets me out of bed in the mornings is that, despite all this (and yes you will always get a few skates - but that was true in the old days as well), when push comes to shove, it has been my experience that J & J can raise their game to levels that would surprise themselves. The ship in which I was the XO had a particularly difficult time and yet I never ceased to be amazed at how, every time there was arequirement for the boys and girls to dig deep (again) they responded with humour, professional skills of the highest order and a determination to succeed. They made me proud to be in the same ship.

Interesting stuff SF, and you are to be commended for your protective attitude towards the RN of today, but of course Rob Hoole directs his attack at the RN rather than society as a whole because the RN is what he knows about and what he is sad, and even ashamed, about. The phrase "the RN only reflects society as a whole" is a popular one and indeed it has a ring of truth about it. Perhaps if the RN was not so reflective of society's ills as well as it's undoubted progress we might have a Service of which we could all be proud. Retired matelots who complain about the modern RN do not do so because they are seeking to make trouble, they do it because they are sick at heart at the decline and the complacency.
 
Maxi_77 said:
wardmaster said:
Maxi_77 said:
Or perhaps the rantings of a passed over Lt Cdr, every big wardroom has at least one sitting in the corner moaning away into his beer or in my day pink gin about how the mob was not what it had been.

You have no idea if he was passed over or not so please don't surmise. He was more likely to have been an SD officer whose ceiling was Cdr and who didn't quite make it because of age. If a GL officer (as was) had as many selective promotions as an SD Lt Cdr, that GL would have made Admiral.

You are of course quite right, although one could suggest that some one who has failed to reach their 'ceiling' has effectively been passed over.[/quote]

You mean like 2SL. :D
 
Equally I would suggest that some one who retired as an SL Lt Cdr on age has not been in a position to influence very much in the RN for some time.

As to the present regime at Raleigh, it certainly sounds poor, but in many ways understandable, after all I am sure any one who is running a training establishment in the forces is suffering from the multiple strikes from Deepcut, UCHR and H&S. These will take time to settle out and I suspect in a year or so the regime will become more appropriate to the task. I can remeber from my time the complaints about how the ending of National Service had impacted on the training system and that took a few years to work out.
 

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