RNR/RNVR Commodores

[scouse]

The most senior rank attainable 39/45 by members of the RNR/RNVR was that of Commodore. Many convoy Commodores were senior officers, recalled from the active list, from retirement. Some took a demotion to carry out this important duty :salute:

 

[penrecon]

Its still is the most senior rank that can be achieved by RNR officers!

 

[SO2Seaman]

I may be wrong, but there is a joint 2* post, which has been held for the past 2 guys by the army. I believe that if we had a very switched on commodore, and the timing was right, he/she could be given the joint 2* post, thus giving us a Rear Admiral Reservist! - I'm sure someone will correct me if I have it wrong!
SO2Seaman

 

[scouse]

I may be wrong, but there is a joint 2* post, which has been held for the past 2 guys by the army. I believe that if we had a very switched on commodore, and the timing was right, he/she could be given the joint 2* post, thus giving us a Rear Admiral Reservist! - I'm sure someone will correct me if I have it wrong!
SO2Seaman

:wink: :wink: Wonder what was the Highest Rank from the Active list 1940s. That took a demotion to Commodore :roll: :roll: :wink:

 

[AntC]

I may be wrong, but there is a joint 2* post, which has been held for the past 2 guys by the army. I believe that if we had a very switched on commodore, and the timing was right, he/she could be given the joint 2* post, thus giving us a Rear Admiral Reservist! - I'm sure someone will correct me if I have it wrong!
SO2Seaman

That's an interesting observation.

 

[broadside]

Well that won't be for a long time then since the current Commodore is RN ... won't hold my breath but it is a possibility I suppose.

 

[broadside]

There is always the option of being royal (as in blue blooded not boot necked) - I believe HRH PMOK is now Honorary RAdm but since the "R" has gone from the curl no-one is any the wiser that his is an RNR rank

 

[Bisley]

I may be wrong, but there is a joint 2* post, which has been held for the past 2 guys by the army. I believe that if we had a very switched on commodore, and the timing was right, he/she could be given the joint 2* post, thus giving us a Rear Admiral Reservist! - I'm sure someone will correct me if I have it wrong!
SO2Seaman

That's an interesting observation.

I believe the Duke of Westminster is the highest ranking reservist and holds the 2* post.

In 2004 he was appointed to the new post of Assistant Chief of Defence Staff (Reserves and Cadets) with promotion to the rank of Major-General. He is the first reservist holding such rank since the 30s

 

[McHammock]

There is always the option of being royal (as in blue blooded not boot necked) - I believe HRH PMOK is now Honorary RAdm but since the "R" has gone from the curl no-one is any the wiser that his is an RNR rank

The 'R' has just gone from the curl for the majority of RNR i.e. are liable for mobilisation.
Honorary ranks, SCC (where applicable) etc should still have the 'R', hence everyone should still be wise that PMOK has RNR rank as he is Honorary RAdm

Edited to add:
Have just seen photo (on HMS KENT website Linky that PMOK is NOT wearing the 'R' in his curl.
Was sure Honorary ranks still kept the 'R', will check in unit tonight

 

[AntC]

There is always the option of being royal (as in blue blooded not boot necked) - I believe HRH PMOK is now Honorary RAdm but since the "R" has gone from the curl no-one is any the wiser that his is an RNR rank

The 'R' has just gone from the curl for the majority of RNR i.e. are liable for mobilisation.
Honorary ranks, SCC (where applicable) etc should still have the 'R', hence everyone should still be wise that PMOK has RNR rank as he is Honorary RAdm

Edited to add:
Have just seen photo (on HMS KENT website Linky that PMOK is NOT wearing the 'R' in his curl.
Was sure Honorary ranks still kept the 'R', will check in unit tonight

Sea Cadet Corps staff members DO NOT wear the "R" in the curl as they wear "Wavy Navy" stripes (which were previously worn by the members of the RNVR) and are therefore very clearly distinguished from both the RN and the RNR. As a point of interest however they are allocated honourary RNR status in that they can use the letters "RNR" at the end of their style (prefixed with SCC). SCC officers DO NOT however hold a commission, they simply hold an appointment by the Captain of the Sea Cadet Corps, who is a serving RN Captain. So thus a Sea Cadet Lieutenant called Joe Bloggs would be styled as follows:

Lt(SCC) J Bloggs RNR

Combined Cadet Force(Royal Navy) officers DO however wear straight lace with the "R" in the curl. I'm not sure whether or not they hold commissions or how they are styled, so perhaps someone with a bit more CCF experience could advise.

University Royal Naval Unit Training Officers (ranking SLt - Lt) ARE officers in the Royal Naval Reserve, however they are on List 7 which means that they are not eligible for call-up. As such they wear the "R" in their curls. They are however "proper" members of the RNR and so as such would be styled:

Lt J Bloggs RNR

As for honourary members of the RNR (such as members of the Royal Family) AS FAR AS I AM AWARE (I may well be incorrect here!) are not required to wear the distinguishing "R" in their curves as their honourary rank is irrespective of service lists.

 

[shipsnthat]

University Royal Naval Unit Training Officers (ranking SLt - Lt) ARE officers in the Royal Naval Reserve, however they are on List 7 which means that they are not eligible for call-up. As such they wear the "R" in their curls. They are however "proper" members of the RNR and so as such would be styled:

Lt J Bloggs RNR

They're not 'proper' officers in the RNR, which is why they're on List 7, which is listed as a separate entity to the RNR in the defence vote.

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc0607/hc00/0018/0018.pdf

They're classed as 'temporary' (rather than 'honorary' officers) and in common with their cadet force counterparts do not hold a commission; there's basically no difference between them and URNU students in terms of their legal status, which is why I've always found it quite amusing that some TO somewhere took the time to change the Wikipedia pages of the P2000s to list Training Officers (RNR) vis a vis students (URNU). The URNU students are as much - or as little - RNR as the TOs.

We're all happy walts together, after all ;-)

 

[AntC]

University Royal Naval Unit Training Officers (ranking SLt - Lt) ARE officers in the Royal Naval Reserve, however they are on List 7 which means that they are not eligible for call-up. As such they wear the "R" in their curls. They are however "proper" members of the RNR and so as such would be styled:

Lt J Bloggs RNR

They're not 'proper' officers in the RNR, which is why they're on List 7, which is listed as a separate entity to the RNR in the defence vote.

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc0607/hc00/0018/0018.pdf

They're classed as 'temporary' (rather than 'honorary' officers) and in common with their cadet force counterparts do not hold a commission; there's basically no difference between them and URNU students in terms of their legal status, which is why I've always found it quite amusing that some TO somewhere took the time to change the Wikipedia pages of the P2000s to list Training Officers (RNR) vis a vis students (URNU). The URNU students are as much - or as little - RNR as the TOs.

We're all happy walts together, after all ;-)

I'd always assumed that the URNU TOs were AIBd. Incorrect assumption it seems.

 

[ZFWQ]

CCF officers do not wear straight lace. They wear wavy lace as per the SCC. URNU TO's do not sit an AIB and all their ranks are Temporary Acting Ranks . I am aware that the SO for the URNUS's has had to constantly remind his TO's of their correct rank and striping. URNU's no longer come under the auspices of the Maritime Reserve, although we still train URNU TO's on the RNR BRNC course, which is a requirement for them to become T/A/LT. Honorary Officers (Not URNU) should wear an R in the curl, but because they are appointed to project the Navy case they have been permitted to remove the R's. All dealings with Honorary Officers are dealt with through 1SL's outer office.

 

[scouse]

I may be wrong, but there is a joint 2* post, which has been held for the past 2 guys by the army. I believe that if we had a very switched on commodore, and the timing was right, he/she could be given the joint 2* post, thus giving us a Rear Admiral Reservist! - I'm sure someone will correct me if I have it wrong!
SO2Seaman

:wink: :wink: Wonder what was the Highest Rank from the Active list 1940s. That took a demotion to Commodore :roll: :roll: :wink:

Have found these ranks as Convoy Commodores RNR :wink: Admiral Sir Fredrick Dreyer. Vice Admiral Lachlan Mac Kinnon.Vice Admiral Sir Malcom Goldsmith. Vice Admiral Sir Cecil Reyne. Admiral Sir Kenelm Crieghton. From the RET/LIST :salute:

 

[McHammock]

Should have been clearer in my original post.
"CCF Officers (where applicable)"
Yep, "normal" CCF officers wear wavy stripes.
However, consider the case of "old & bold" RNR officer (wirh 'R' in curl), now working as CCF officer - they would continue to wear straight lace with the 'R' in the curl - I know, not many of them but we have one who used to be from my unit now running a local CCF.
ps: apologies, forgot to dig out the original TM/DIN about who does/doesn't wear 'R' in the curl when in unit last night. Will try & do better next time

 

[broadside]

Good for them - bet they were pleased as punch to be able to "continue to serve" - and I bet there were a lot of people grateful for their experience and contribution. Good bit of research Scouse

 

[shipsnthat]

CCF officers do not wear straight lace. They wear wavy lace as per the SCC. URNU TO's do not sit an AIB and all their ranks are Temporary Acting Ranks . I am aware that the SO for the URNUS's has had to constantly remind his TO's of their correct rank and striping. URNU's no longer come under the auspices of the Maritime Reserve, although we still train URNU TO's on the RNR BRNC course, which is a requirement for them to become T/A/LT. Honorary Officers (Not URNU) should wear an R in the curl, but because they are appointed to project the Navy case they have been permitted to remove the R's. All dealings with Honorary Officers are dealt with through 1SL's outer office.

Thanks for that - I've always wondered why Honorary Lt Cdr Ellen MacArthur doesn't wear an R in her lace.

 

[Bisley]

There is always the option of being royal (as in blue blooded not boot necked) - I believe HRH PMOK is now Honorary RAdm but since the "R" has gone from the curl no-one is any the wiser that his is an RNR rank

The 'R' has just gone from the curl for the majority of RNR i.e. are liable for mobilisation.
Honorary ranks, SCC (where applicable) etc should still have the 'R', hence everyone should still be wise that PMOK has RNR rank as he is Honorary RAdm

Edited to add:
Have just seen photo (on HMS KENT website Linky that PMOK is NOT wearing the 'R' in his curl.
Was sure Honorary ranks still kept the 'R', will check in unit tonight

Sea Cadet Corps staff members DO NOT wear the "R" in the curl as they wear "Wavy Navy" stripes (which were previously worn by the members of the RNVR) and are therefore very clearly distinguished from both the RN and the RNR. As a point of interest however they are allocated honourary RNR status in that they can use the letters "RNR" at the end of their style (prefixed with SCC). SCC officers DO NOT however hold a commission, they simply hold an appointment by the Captain of the Sea Cadet Corps, who is a serving RN Captain. So thus a Sea Cadet Lieutenant called Joe Bloggs would be styled as follows:

Lt(SCC) J Bloggs RNR

Combined Cadet Force(Royal Navy) officers DO however wear straight lace with the "R" in the curl. I'm not sure whether or not they hold commissions or how they are styled, so perhaps someone with a bit more CCF experience could advise.

University Royal Naval Unit Training Officers (ranking SLt - Lt) ARE officers in the Royal Naval Reserve, however they are on List 7 which means that they are not eligible for call-up. As such they wear the "R" in their curls. They are however "proper" members of the RNR and so as such would be styled:

Lt J Bloggs RNR

As for honourary members of the RNR (such as members of the Royal Family) AS FAR AS I AM AWARE (I may well be incorrect here!) are not required to wear the distinguishing "R" in their curves as their honourary rank is irrespective of service lists.

Question ??

If SCC officers dont hold commissions do they need saluting by regulars/reservists OR is it just SCC's and other cadet organisations who salute there officers. Ie army cadet officers and air cadet RAFVR(T) officers.

As in my many years i have seen many cadet force officers swanning around looking for salutes of regulars 8O sad cookies they are

 

[AntC]

Welcome to the hot topic Bisley!

You'll never find a suitable answer to this question on which everyone agrees!

I think the general concensus is that they do get saluted (rightly or wrongly).

 

[Purple_twiglet]

Best bet is to use common sense - if you should salute them then do so. It may hurt, but think about the nause coming your way if you don't and then one of them moans!