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RNR post SDSR

Jimpy

Badgeman
Over in Pongo land http://www.arrse.co.uk/just-ta/149677-interesting-article.html

they're having a rather nice discussion(and many others of the same ilk) on what the scale of the reserve will be after the review, usefulness, reservists keeping up the skills required for LSDI......

So, theoretically and sensibly, whats next for us (these are suggestions only to start discussion)?

* With the mine sweepers getting cut post SDSR are they coming back to us as per LSDI?

* Rebranching for all to match the RNs branches exactly so we can slot in where needed with main fleet if the RFAs are axed?

* Re-roled into a P/T Coast guard-esque establishment with the 1/2 Archer class being taken off the UNRU?

* Units being designated to certain branches, ie Scotia being Logs only, Forward being Force protection only, a bit like the RAuxAF?

* Disbandment???
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Jimpy said:
* With the mine sweepers getting cut post SDSR are they coming back to us as per LSDI?

Does the RN still do sweeping? I thought that the RN MCMV force had stopped sweeping in favour of hunting.

FW
 

instinct

Lantern Swinger
Jimpy said:
Over in Pongo land http://www.arrse.co.uk/just-ta/149677-interesting-article.html

they're having a rather nice discussion(and many others of the same ilk) on what the scale of the reserve will be after the review, usefulness, reservists keeping up the skills required for LSDI......

So, theoretically and sensibly, whats next for us (these are suggestions only to start discussion)?

* With the mine sweepers getting cut post SDSR are they coming back to us as per LSDI?

* Rebranching for all to match the RNs branches exactly so we can slot in where needed with main fleet if the RFAs are axed?

* Re-roled into a P/T Coast guard-esque establishment with the 1/2 Archer class being taken off the UNRU?

* Units being designated to certain branches, ie Scotia being Logs only, Forward being Force protection only, a bit like the RAuxAF?

* Disbandment???


My bold, Christ i hope not :lol:
 
In order:

No
No
No
No
No.

Next.....

(Sensible head on: the branches that aren't found in the RN will be safest. SeaRes might be standing into danger, as well as some of the Logs function. The Medical branch will probably be increased (you heard it here first....), and possibly the Int guys.)
 
FlagWagger said:
Jimpy said:
* With the mine sweepers getting cut post SDSR are they coming back to us as per LSDI?

Does the RN still do sweeping? I thought that the RN MCMV force had stopped sweeping in favour of hunting.

FW

We stopped sweeping about 5 years ago. The sweep kit is still in Pompey dockyard, the Senior Rates still exist (just about), but it will be a very cold day in hell before we resurrect the capability.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Nothing is completely safe, however the following would be highest on the list of 'keep if money permits' in my opinion. That said, it depends on how the future RN looks, and at present it seems that the RN is about to cease to exist as a credible force.

The other question is what 'critical mass' does the RNR need to survive - we're at roughly 2000 now, and I'd suggest are fast approaching the point where we won't have enough people of the right age to keep the organisation alive. Look at the manning pyramid and you'll see that with the number of retirements coming up, we're going to lose a lot of people anyway.

Based on current operational commitments, and value in terms of where people are deployed, then the list below would seem to reflect the RNs value on various branches. This isn't a comment on the value of the people, but the skill sets that the RNR can offer the RN.

Intelligence Branch (and all its subspecs)
Info Ops
Media Branch
Air Branch

Bit lower down the scale, but still useful.
MTO
Sub Ops
SPO Teams (Sea)

Bottom of the heap
Logs
MW
AW (Particularly if the 'delete all amphibs' option is taken).
 

dixie_gooner

Lantern Swinger
I hope there is still a large requirement for RNR post SDR. I was planning on joining once I have taken my redundancy. Just unfortunate that LOGS is bottom of the pile
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Purple_twiglet said:
Based on current operational commitments, and value in terms of where people are deployed, then the list below would seem to reflect the RNs value on various branches. This isn't a comment on the value of the people, but the skill sets that the RNR can offer the RN.

Intelligence Branch (and all its subspecs)
Info Ops
Media Branch
Air Branch

Bit lower down the scale, but still useful.
MTO
Sub Ops
SPO Teams (Sea)

Bottom of the heap
Logs
MW
AW (Particularly if the 'delete all amphibs' option is taken).

No CIS? Did I miss something?
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
They should make the entire RNR into a branch similar to the old short engagement seaman branch.

That way when RNR bods deploy to ships, there will be no pretences or initial disappointment when they are given a set of marigolds and the keys to to the Hobart dishwasher and told to crack the fcuk on.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
TaylorMono said:
Yeah, CIS is so low on the pile its already been disbanded! :p

Again? Dont you just love all this continual shuffling of job titles - I went from Tactical Communicator to Comms (Sea), briefly to GSSR (Comms) and then CIS between 1984 and 2007 and was broadly speaking, doing the same job for this period! So what's the current title of the Information Managers/Handlers formerly know as Communicators?
 

Uncle_Albert

War Hero
"Rebranching for all to match the RNs branches exactly so we can slot in where needed with main fleet if the RFAs are axed?"

That seems a bit unlikely. All the best stuff we do is what the RN doesn't. Appreciate you don't think it likely either, and are just starting a chat, but that's one's dead in the water.
 

Uncle_Albert

War Hero
In the interests of a discussion, then, what odds that some (or even all) of the RNR gets expanded? Given that reservists are cheap as chips to maintain, and they've now demonstrated the ability to be deployed both in their niche roles and also to fill various RN obligations that are not really branch specific (I'm thinking the numerous purple type jobs that just need someone who can read, write and salute with the correct hand given two chances).
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
UA - I've actually heard on the grapevine that such a suggestion has been mooted - wholesale transfer of RN capability into the RNR - there could easily be an argument that an 'General Staff Duties' branch could actually be a good thing - take on some ex RN types, do some broad training on list 3 and whack em into theatre when needed.
 

digger84

War Hero
I believe that the OP's plan to use the P2000's as a not viable option due to the contract for them ends in 2012.
 

soggykitkat

Midshipman
IMO they will reduce the RNR, i can never understand why we pay for people to attend once a week to play sport or do admin type things, there is no real training element attached to drill nights, the only training that is worht its salt is once the rating gets mobilsied, this being the case you do not need the RNR. if you mobilse any RNR personell you need to make sure that they do not take a drop in wages/clear it with the employer etc etc
it would be cheaper to stop people's benefits and make them do some mobilisation training so they can go do the same job any RNR would do, you then dont have to worry about the employer, how much you need to pay them etc etc, and if they dont come back then hey ho, another one off benefits. realisticly it would only take about 3-4 weeks training to bring them in to line with the RNR and be reasonably safe with a gun, tie knots or count socks
 

Uncle_Albert

War Hero
What you seem to be advocating is people join the RNR, do nothing for years, and then one day get a phone call telling them to turn up for eight weeks training and then they're spending six months somewhere hot. Which is so full of holes I don't know where to begin.

As for the suggestion to stop benefits and forcibly enlist people; this is the kind of thing that I'm surprised to read here. Conscription creates a very different kind of armed forces, and the British armed forces are a professional volunteer force - taking on large numbers of conscripts is a major undertaking that would cause significant expense and damage. A significant part of what makes the UK's reserve forces effective is that the people are (in general terms) self-selecting as motivated, keen volunteers with a desire to serve and the initiative and gumption to do something about it. Replacing them with conscripts would be a disaster.

It is true that it takes 3-4 weeks to teach someone to tie a knot, count socks, or be safe with a rifle. How long does it take to teach people to manage submarine waterspace, speak foreign languages, become conversant with global maritime shipping, manage a forwards logistics centre (apologies for the bad terminology), undertake RN diving activities, operate as a stand-alone deployable ship's protection team, carry out extended information operations including a psychological element, manage groups of journalists in a way that won't embarrass the RN and still gets our message across or any of the other capabilities the RNR adds, many of which the RN simply doesn't do or has only a fledgling capability?
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
Here is my two cents, hopefully it should bring out some serious debate:

With all due respect to the elements of the RNR that do lots of useful work, in my experience, the general consensus among the regular RN is that the RNR are a useless waste of 8s. This maybe a reflection on the training, time constraints or calibre of recruits or a combination of all. I understand that there are large parts of the RNR doing good work shore side, but for the vast majority of RN ratings and officers serving on Frigates and Destroyers, the only time they will encounter the RNR is when their weekend leave is stopped to look after a group of lads on a visit or when an RNR lad is deployed with them and needs to be bottle fed and supervised at all times.

The fact is every single RNR rating or officer I have ever encountered was considered to be a burden to their department and stuck in a role where they could do as little damage as possible i.e DHP or paint bosun. As a result a dim view of the RNR has developed among the RN. Unlike the Army where reservists can easily slot into jobs, most RN roles are very technical and require years of training, development and experience to master. In no way can an RNR rating with a total of say 30 or 40 days training, be considered to be on a level with even the lowliest RN AB2 in a similar branch, who will have completed at least 9 months solid training before they get on ship. As RNR ratings move up the promotion ladder, gap only widens further. When an RNR killick is deployed they are generally considered to be about as employable as an RN AB1 or in some cases even lower.

I stand by my original post on this thread, I believe the RNR would be best employed in a similar capacity as the now defunct SES branch, i.e a pool of manpower with minimal training who can be used to carry out general unskilled duties on ship (chipping, painting, DHP, gangway duties etc) leaving the better trained and more experienced RN lads to crack on with the jobs they are trained to do. I mean let's face it this is what happens in most cases already, it just needs to be formalised and we need to stop wasting money training RNR lads to do anything beyond this. There is absolutely no point sending an RNR rating on a two week comms course when all they will be doing on ship is pan bashing and guarding the gangway.
 
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