RNR on RN courses.

Should the RNR have seperate courses to the RN. (With RN instructors.)

  • Good idea as both organisations get to integrate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    88

the_matelot

War Hero
Moderator
soontobe said:
Trehorn I agree with your comment that there are sometimes to many standeasy's but on some occassions there are reasons for it. Many of the courses we attend use powerpoint presentation which may be long and boring also I am lead to believe RN instructors are only meant to instruct a course for a certain number of hours a day or so the ones I work with tell me it may also be that the instructor may have a secondary function they have to attend to.

Ohhh, we are??? :D

I'm slightly in agreement with the OP and I'm not deliberately playing devils advocate here. I've done a fair few Air Courses and I did find myself thinking that there were shedloads of standeasys, early secures and late starts-maybe there are other reasons for these breaks but I know on some of the courses, they more than kicked the arse out of it (9am turn to's, standeasy from 1000 to 1030, lunch from 1200 to 1315, standeasy from 1430-1500 and secure at 1600 and on the Friday, secure was at 1030-and this was a 3 day course condensed into 5 days ;) .

Saying that, I'm all for early secures so I can go weekenders and beat the manic rush! The Tuesday start may have been for many reasons-the instructors could've been fully loaded with other courses and they may have needed the Monday to complete paperwork.
 
Uncle_Albert said:
On a side note, I understand that the first aid duration requirements for the first aid qualification awarded are actually out of the hands of the RN and the MOD; they're laid down by another branch of government (the HSE is in mind, but I couldn't swear to it).

I can add something that may back up your belief - in our organisation First Aid training requirements are laid down by the amount of hours training that must be delivered, irrespective of how many days it is spread over.

I think the time is set tio achieve the requirements of specific qualifications. I believe these requirements are set by the governing/awarding bodies and our insurers.
 

Karma

War Hero
trehorn said:
I have found it quite difficult to vote on my own poll because i actually agree with both of the questions i have posed. I do think the present system wasted alot of valuable RNR man hours which could be avoided with change however by training side by side with the RN it does show the RNR in a better light (well, most of the time annyway).

I think the issue is that you're taking issue with one thing and asking a question about another. As already pointed out, it's just not cost effective to tailor many of these courses specifically for RNR, not least because getting a critical mass of RNR trainees for each course would be a challenge. I'd also observe that the value of RNR man hours really depends on which side of the fence you sit on, in purely financial terms the marginal wastage doesn't justify it, although I'd say that there is probably more of an issue with general satisfaction. The threshold for RNR departure is significantly lower than regular RN, so enough of the time wasting and it's easy to make a move.

I think the risk with reserves only courses is that you don't get the incidental learning and experience sharing from those with a regular background. In my experience many reservists can be quite narrow, particularly at the senior rate or mid-ranking officer levels where experience is hugely important. That's not a significant criticism, merely something that has to be recognised in employment.

I think the greatest benefit of combined training is explicit parity in standards. If you're training alongside regulars then it's very clear that the course hasn't been watered down to suit the circumstances of reserve personnel. There can sometimes be a perception that separate courses are like that. Of course all that is wholly undermined when a course takes longer than 2 weeks so has to be delivered over a two week block then a number of weekends, but gaining critical mass becomes the issue.
 

TF110

Lantern Swinger
It works in reverse too - loading RNR onto RN courses provides exposure to the regular service of what we do and how we can do it. I did a course a few years ago which was heavily RN loaded, but they were pleased to see us and build their understanding of our roles.
 

sinbad

Lantern Swinger
I think it's important to remember a lot of RNR use 5 day courses to help them achieve their bounty requirements, whether it's 518 BSSc etc....because all the courses are run all year round which suits some RNR, who have work and/ or family commitments. It's not always easy for them to find 2 weeks training otherwise.

Also if you remove that choice from them by having w/e courses for RNR personnel, more people would probably fail bounty requirements which could lead to them leaving. another retention problem which we don't need!!
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
sinbad said:
I think it's important to remember a lot of RNR use 5 day courses to help them achieve their bounty requirements, whether it's 518 BSSc etc....because all the courses are run all year round which suits some RNR, who have work and/ or family commitments. It's not always easy for them to find 2 weeks training otherwise.

Also if you remove that choice from them by having w/e courses for RNR personnel, more people would probably fail bounty requirements which could lead to them leaving. another retention problem which we don't need!!

So you're in it for the money then?! :? :oops:
 

sinbad

Lantern Swinger
sgtpepperband said:
sinbad said:
I think it's important to remember a lot of RNR use 5 day courses to help them achieve their bounty requirements, whether it's 518 BSSc etc....because all the courses are run all year round which suits some RNR, who have work and/ or family commitments. It's not always easy for them to find 2 weeks training otherwise.

Also if you remove that choice from them by having w/e courses for RNR personnel, more people would probably fail bounty requirements which could lead to them leaving. another retention problem which we don't need!!

So you're in it for the money then?! :? :oops:

BEER TOKENS MATEY :thumright:
 

Tall_bloke

Lantern Swinger
Just chucking my two-penneth in here. I know that the RNR run First Aid courses over 2 weekends. Would it not be possible to run the 518 and other "Guns & Ammo" courses in the same way for the RNR? I know there are a few RNR senior rates around who are trained in bang-stick usage, so could they act as instructors? :rambo:
 

trehorn

War Hero
What ever you do don't get that lunatic 2 1/2 ringer running the course!

You all know who i mean - looks like George Peppard.

That bloke isnt stable :crash: !
 

sinbad

Lantern Swinger
Tall_bloke said:
Just chucking my two-penneth in here. I know that the RNR run First Aid courses over 2 weekends. Would it not be possible to run the 518 and other "Guns & Ammo" courses in the same way for the RNR? I know there are a few RNR senior rates around who are trained in bang-stick usage, so could they act as instructors? :rambo:

Personally i would prefer to receive my training from the training establishments with full training facilities if possible, altho I'm sure we have all noticed that the training can differ slightly between them, but they are always both right!! So i would guestimate if the RNR started doing there own course they would differ too and with bang sticks being involved i wouldn't recommend it, i'm not saying people are incompetent but think of the legalities, if there is an incident and someone does get hurt the RNR instructor could end up being prosecuted............ doing their P/T job !!!

Nothing wrong with the RNR doing their own yearly refresher courses tho, NBCD/ First Aid ............. you can never get too much and they are what is says on the tin 'Refreshers' NBCDQ's always appear to be up to date.
 
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