RNR Direct (Officer) Entry

I know the RNR DE process is still fairly new and I'm going through the process at the moment awaiting AIB date.

Has anyone recently been through the process who can advise me of the processes after AIB please? (ie where you go for which courses, when/where, timescales, etc)

Thanks - replies welcomed
 

navalgazer

Midshipman
AFCO should in theory be able to help. Otherwise RecO (Recruiting Officer) or JOTO (Junior Officers Training Officer) at the Ship that you are planning to join should be able to advise.
Basically you will, depending on your unit, join a pre Fleet Board class. Fleet Board should be planned on being sat within 18 months of AIB, and covers a variety of Naval knowledge. National Training at weekends in now provided.
Prior to starting branch specific training you will also have to at least pass Dartmouth (2 weeks), which I believe is normally held at least 3 times a year.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for that - as for AFCO, the DE process falls outside their remit (so they tell me) it's dealt with by OCLO, who are currently processing info etc.

Thanks for updating me on the process
 
Is it only my unit that puts the direct entry orsifer types in the JR Mess until they pass their AIB. P!ssed the JRs off no end.
 
Thanks Uncle Albert...I think !

Didn't know I could join before AIB result, following which if I failed I could always re-join as a rating (been in the RN as a rating years ago - not like i've never done it)
 

wysiwyg

Lantern Swinger
phil1972 said:
Is it only my unit that puts the direct entry orsifer types in the JR Mess until they pass their AIB. P!ssed the JRs off no end.
Until they have passed their AIB they are not officers.

Rather than the JRs being pissed off, perhaps they should use the opportunity to raise awareness of life as it affects those in square rig. These Direct Entry Officers (if they make the grade) may be their DOs in due course.
 
F*ck off they are officers with orsifer aspirations and outlook and in my experience no interest of life below decks. They just push themselves around in the JRs mess. We therefore end up with no place we can call our own as our mess is the visitors holding area. Do you think for one minute that the SRs would welcome them? No, so why should we?

The should be in the wardroom.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
phil1972 said:
F*ck off they are officers with orsifer aspirations and outlook and in my experience no interest of life below decks. They just push themselves around in the JRs mess. We therefore end up with no place we can call our own as our mess is the visitors holding area. Do you think for one minute that the SRs would welcome them? No, so why should we?

The should be in the wardroom.
Wrong - until they pass their AIB and are awarded a commission they have no right to enter the wardroom. While they may piss off the JRs, its a valuable learning experience for both, the officer candidates see life in the lower deck, while the lower deck can equally develop a relationship with people who one day may be their DOs. To regard the JRs mess as totally separate and isolated from the SRs and the Wardroom does nothing for unit cohesion - in fact, in some RNR units, there are no separate messes, its all one company together.
 
If that is what they wanted they would have then join as a JR make them do Raleigh and spend a couple of years in square rig before their AIB, but that is the system they have just done away with.

Flag Wagger the crux of the issue is summed up in your comment "they have no right to enter the wardroom", correct, as they are not officer but neither are they JRs. Do you really think they would put a civvie (cos that is what they are) in a JRs mess onboard ship until they had done their AIB.

Life would be easier if we did not have separate messes, but I dont think it is the JRs holding that one up. That point is held in place by good old fashioned snobbery.

KLNA, just to point out I aint got a problem with officers or you going direct entry, we all have different roles; crack on and best of luck with your AIB mate. I just dont think some of the units are handling this new process correctly.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
phil1972 said:
If that is what they wanted they would have then join as a JR make them do Raleigh and spend a couple of years in square rig before their AIB, but that is the system they have just done away with.
I actually think this is a better policy than DE but the powers that be diasagree!

phil1972 said:
Flag Wagger the crux of the issue is summed up in your comment "they have no right to enter the wardroom", correct, as they are not officer but neither are they JRs. Do you really think they would put a civvie (cos that is what they are) in a JRs mess onboard ship until they had done their AIB.
Er... yes! Look back to the threads about "Padre Porn" last year and read deeper about how he was accommodated on board.

At Forward, the JRs Mess is used as a "holding mess" for all people not entitled to use the Wardroom or SR Mess - if people can't get along in such an environment, i.e. JR, NE, or DE Officer, then perhaps it might be an indicator that life in the Naval service could not be for them.

If you are finding the attitude of DE types unacceptable, e.g. they feel too good for the JRs Mess, take it up with the LHOM (who can feed it into the chain of command), or alternatively have a word with your DO or even the JOTO. I'm sure that one or more of these will be able to ensure that a word is had with the person(s) concerned advising that such attitudes are not helpful.
 

polab

Midshipman
It's my (probably poor) understanding that as anyone can use any mess that they are invited to as civvies. However, if your unit is inviting them to the JRs mess, they are probably wanting for them to see how the JRs get on and socialise.

phil1972 said:
in my experience no interest of life below decks.
That may be true for a lot of officers. But surely the fact that your unit is trying to give DE candidates experience of life below decks is better than making them stay in the wardroom and generate no interest because they do not know what hapens.

FlagWagger said:
phil1972 wrote:
If that is what they wanted they would have then join as a JR make them do Raleigh and spend a couple of years in square rig before their AIB, but that is the system they have just done away with.

I actually think this is a better policy than DE but the powers that be diasagree!
Same here. But anyway different jobs need different training. From a budgetary view, why train potential officers as JRs just to have to train them up again as JOs?

Good luck KLNA!
 
Blimey, looks like a bit of a hornets nest.

As I said above, I've been a rating (RO) so have experienced life in the JRs mess so if that comes my way I don't anticipate that would be a problem. To be honest, I don't disagree with the old system and the argument of all entering via the rating route.

The reason I have chosen to apply the DE route is that I now have several years of management and leadership experience that I would like to help me if I am successful with my application.
 
KLNA, as I think everyone has said, we wish you well in your application. I think it is just there is a discussion to be had about how to get the most out of the people we recruit. Do we want new Officers to appreciate the Junior Rates in their ships company? Do we want Junior Rates to respect Officer and Senior Rates? Do we want Junior Rates to have some self worth or are they just in a "holding" area until they join the Naval equivalent of the human race?
 
phil1972 said:
KLNA, as I think everyone has said, we wish you well in your application. I think it is just there is a discussion to be had about how to get the most out of the people we recruit. Do we want new Officers to appreciate the Junior Rates in their ships company? Do we want Junior Rates to respect Officer and Senior Rates? Do we want Junior Rates to have some self worth or are they just in a "holding" area until they join the Naval equivalent of the human race?
Whilst officers joing the RN as DEs spend time at sea living with and working as ratings. The amount of time is farily small (one term out of four, as it was) and stops after BRNC when they're on CFT and SFT. So should the RN bin DE officers? Or with careful control can we create a similar effect?

The other big difference, and in my opinion why the scheme is a good thing, is age. As seen on another thread the age limit has gone up for entry to the RN (for some branches). The RNR age profile is still much higher, we have good candidates who are kicking on 40 when the make their approach. Do we bin them, put them on a longish NE training course (hence knocking them over the age limit) or do we reintroduce the DE officer scheme. I think the powers that be were spot on here.

I get the feeling a lot of people have been thorougly p*ssed off by various officers in the past, especially junior ones, but most of the JOs I see don't throw their weight around and they do try and learn from the experiences of others.

As to the self worth of the JRs, is there something you're trying to tell us?
:wink:
 
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