RNR - direct diver entry

3BadgeAB

Midshipman
Sonarbender,

ships divers could wear the badge until they got new ones so there was not a faded mark when it was removed, up to a time limit which I can't remember. The cannot wear them now. One problem with ships divers was the inability to draft people based on adqual so you could get one ship with enough ships divers and one with none. That means you still need diving cover. Of course, I am sure the wonderful JPA could do that now!

UncleAlbert, of course that is what should happen but what I am talking about is possible tasking for RNR divers, not suggesting that there should be no EOD capability. I don't decide what they do, I am merely suggesting that survey work could be one task but the problem there is that is a peacetime task (in the first case) and during heightened threat there is still no defined operational role for RNR divers which is the point I think I am trying to make. I say think because I am not sure any more...

3BadgeAB
 
Sonarbender - I share your sentiments but ships' divers were abolished five years ago. Despite pessimistic forecasts, no disasters have come to light as a result (unless you know different). As with the risks involved in the withdrawal of any capability (carrier air, anyone?), as long as nothing goes wrong, the decision is seen as justified. It's not until the proverbial hits the fan that the objectors are proved right. By then, of course, it's all too late.
 
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angrydoc

Guest
Go to maximum watertight integrity, all damage control teams to stations, manoeuvre vessel away from other vessels and into waters easier for emergency services (and, worst-case, salvage operations), get all organic aircraft away and evacuate all non-essential personnel from the vessel and call in the EOD chaps perhaps?

No no, all that's just silly. You're quite right, angrydoc.

UA

You're being facetious. It doesn't add to the discussion.
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
3BadgeAB - I share your sentiments but ships' divers were abolished five years ago. Despite pessimistic forecasts, no disasters have come to light as a result (unless you know different). As with the risks involved in the withdrawal of any capability (carrier air, anyone?), as long as nothing goes wrong, the decision is seen as justified. It's not until the proverbial hits the fan that the objectors are proved right. By then, of course, it's all too late.

Disasters? No.
Avoidable delay to units on ops? Yes.
Extra expense in flying out a large team of CDs to do what a couple of SDs could have easily managed? Yes.
Non-availability of a large chunk of one of the Diving Groups, with knock-on effect to the EOD coverage? Probably.
 

Spidiver

War Hero
Not sure that's the case Joe.
In 88 the Fearless was in Greece and the ships divers took a poker guage reading, the results of which meant me and a team of 4 lads had to fly out there and check the readings. The housing into which you screw the poker guge had come loose, we tightened it, took the reading, checked with the Go-No Go sword and reported to the skipper that he was able to continue his world cruise.
I know of at least 4 other occasions when ship's divers were unable to "easily manage" a simple task, and CD's were sent out.
Unfortunately far too many ship's divers spent more time swimming jackstays at Horsea Island's Monthly Dippers section than under their ships, due to the "laziness " of the ship's diving team to conduct their own continuation training.
 

labrum

War Hero
UA

You're being facetious. It doesn't add to the discussion.

AD I don't see what was facetious about his comment. If what AU has listed are SOPs when such a threat is identified then the fact that he's 'reminding you' of this aspect of an appropriate response seems reasonable.
 

frogman007

War Hero
"not realistically expecting to find anything".

That sums up the shit state of our country. Do things by half-measure because we'll probably get away with it. Until the shit hits the fan, then there'll be a multi-gazillion pound enquiry and lots of hand-wringing and "it must not happen again".

If you're diving a hull to look for mines etc then you bloody well should be prepared to deal with them. There is naff all use of paying people to go diving if their only function is to "have a look but don't touch."


Here, here!
 

Uncle_Albert

War Hero
AD I don't see what was facetious about his comment. If what AU has listed are SOPs when such a threat is identified then the fact that he's 'reminding you' of this aspect of an appropriate response seems reasonable.

Well, we have actual SDs on here, who presumably were not all trained in EOD. Perhaps one of them could tell us what would have happened had they found an explosive device on the hull? "Naff all" or informed the OOD/OOW and taken part in the subsequent steps to improve the safety and security of the ship and crew? There's more to diving than EOD, as Sonar-Bender has regaled in his salty dits.
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
Well, we have actual SDs on here, who presumably were not all trained in EOD. Perhaps one of them could tell us what would have happened had they found an explosive device on the hull? "Naff all" or informed the OOD/OOW and taken part in the subsequent steps to improve the safety and security of the ship and crew? There's more to diving than EOD, as Sonar-Bender has regaled in his salty dits.

Cheers Uncle Albert - all true dits!

On my SD course (though it might have been my Supervisor's course) we were trained in the use of the LMDE, which all ships and boats carried at the time. But EOD - no thanks! Though there was an incident on my boat with an Argentinian hand grenade found near Stanley.... but that's another dit!

PS - Once in Faslane on the day of a CSST Awkward, I was checking my arrays and actually found/saw a (dummy!!) limpet mine on the hull! This was about lunchtime, with the exercise not due to commence until 18/1900. Being a 'game on' type, I told the Jimmy, WEO etc, so we could get the jump on both the CDs and CSST, thereby getting lots of brownie points for being such an efficient boat.

'Oh no Chief' says they - we have to wait until the exercise starts.

Tossers.
 

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