Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by beer_bosun, Jul 18, 2006.

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  1. Speaking of running a mile, passed my RNFT the other week - best time ever since joining. Had been passing bricks because I thought I would fail - no sweat!!

    Time to say goodbye to the lardies perhaps?!!
  2. Hmm....can see a big gap opening at CPO and Lt Cdr/Cdr level....lol!!!

    I think I might get those CW papers together again might be my chance!!

  3. Congrats on the Fitness Test B-B. :)
    If I as a slightly over-the-hill 41 year old can pass at a level required of a person half my age, it can't be that bad, can it?
    What's holding up the rest of you? :wink:
  4. I note that as of next year officers will no longer be allowed to fail the 1.5 miles run during their time at BRNC. In my day the lardarses who staggered in after 15 minutes got a "never mind, eh?", but it seems they're now going to get an instant RTU with a very strongly worded letter to their unit.

    You know what? About ******* time.
  5. What a totally pointless idea to FAIL them.

    Its not like RNR can just go home and then back to work - many people have taken annual leave to do courses and to then RTU them is causing a lot more hassle - especially when blogs then asks to go again later in the year. While I agree they should pass it, what would be better would be for failed RNFT's to be told that they cant do fleet board till they've done it. Motivation and training at the same time.

    Was this a BRNC idea or a COMMARRES idea?
  6. I've got the dit somewhere. I'll check.

    I disagree with your assessment. Six months is plenty of warning of the new system, and these are going to be brand new officers fresh out of AIB. If they can't demonstrate the commitment necessary to ensure they can run 1.5 miles in a reasonable time, particularly since they're given BRNC dates six months plus in advance, we're better off without them.

    Currently, officers failing their two weeks at BRNC are told to repeat the course. Perhaps failing the run should simply count as a failed course.
  7. I agree with you entirely, i know of three LH that have been RTU'd from LRCC for failing runs, either 1.5 or 3k, and if i as a slightly overweight forty yo can get all my sh1t in one sock and pass, why cant everyone else? and no i didn't even consider the rockport walk to be an option for me, before anyone asks. In a nutshell, if mere mortal senior and junior rates can be RTU'd for failing a run why should the officer corp be treated any differently?.
  8. I hear what your all saying guys, but personally I don't see being able to run 1.5 miles in 11 or 12 minutes is the only measure of personal fitness. Some people, no matter how fit they are, are no good at endurance running - me included. I passed the run by the skin of a gnats todger at Raleigh 10 years ago. Not because I was unfit though. I passed the shuttle run by about 5 or 10 seconds, and pushed out about 100 sit-ups, passed the swimming test. It was just the 1.5 that gave me trouble. :oops:

    I was in my school athletics team and had some school records for 100, 200 hurdles etc, and even got close to county level, but put me on the cross country and I'd be shagged if I tried to go too fast. :?

    Even now, I ride a 10 mile journey (each way) to work on a bike in less than 40 minutes (including some b*****d hills, but I still cannot run the mile and a half in less than 12 minutes. Don't tell me I'm unfit - I'm just not a runner. Doesn't make me a lardarse. I can still get from the mess to my stand to point quicker than most of my younger oppos!! :twisted:

    Don't get me wrong - I can run 1.5 miles - probably twice that. Just not in the required time.

    Take an example. A forty year fat bloke, with high BP, heavy drinker, smokes like a chimney. Does the 1.5, passes it, but red in the face, sweating like a pig, can't breathe, and falls flat on his face for the next couple of hours, takes the rest of the day for his pulse to drop below 100 - gnats off a coronary. (Don't laugh - I've seen it)

    Then you get a 30 something, healthy BP, slimmish, doesn't smoke, low resting pulse, does the 1.5 - fails by 10 seconds, but can still run another mile at the end, and his pulse recovers to resting in about 20 minutes.

    I know which one I'd prefer on my SPO team!
  9. I don't think I'd want this guy; he clearly isn't prepared to push himself beyond his comfort zone.
  10. I sympathise - honestly I do, but the RN/RNR has set standards and that should be the end of it - if you pass you pass; if you fail you fail!

    I quite agree with the earlier sentiment that if LHs get RTU'd for failing the fitness test then so should officers.
  11. Fair enough - appreciate RN and RNR have standards and rightly so. But I ain't gonna lose any sleep if my services are no longer required just because I fail a poxy run by a few seconds. :wink: However as I understand it, the bleep test is going to be an option, which I don't have too much of a problem with.

    And by the way - personally at Raleigh I pushed it like F**k, still only passed by a second or 2 though. Not saying I'll fail it now, but even though I spent 2 years as a gym member going 3 or 4 times a week, and getting ticked off by my personal trainer for pushing myself too hard, I still rarely got my 1.5 cracked off in less than 12 minutes - his comment "some people can't run no matter how fit they are" :cry:

    But another thing - it does seem like double standards when over 40's who are gonna do the same job, get to do the "rockport walk" if they so choose. How's that fit in with the fitness philosophy then :?
  12. Fully agree the RN/RNR has high standards. I also fully agree that any YO going to BRNC should be medically fit to pass the run. What I don't agree with is the notion of RTUing someone who fails a run as this messes up their real life and would be a retention issue. Far better to conditionally fail them - ie pass the RNFT or no promotion than waste time and taxpayers money on redoing BRNC for the sake of it and delaying their more significant training.

    As for the RNRFT, are we going to get an RNRTM that is properly written rather than the RNTM with "Reserve" added in. The current one is totally divorced from the reality of RNR training.
  13. Totally agree..!!...bu t I feel a rant coming on!!!

    I fully understand the need for the RNFT lets face it the RNR needs it across the board JRs, SR's and Officers and I fully understand its implementation. I for one am training on a regular basis to ensure that I pass when required..!!

    And as stated if you have had an LRCC/SRCC course or BRNC bearing in mind they are booked well in advance again I agree there should be no excuses..

    However pass or fail I can understand but RTUing based on a marginal fail i.e. outside of your time by a minute serves no purpose at all....!!

    Key points to consider

    1) The RNR doesnt pay your mortgage
    2) By RTU ing someone who are you likley to piss off....Reservist, Employer, Family
    3) Who do the RNR and the RN(Armed Forces) need the support of more than ever....Reservist, Employers and their family
    4) What is the key issue facing the RNR...retention
    5) Which three areas are likley to affect retention most severly....lack of support from Reservist, Family and Employers
    6) Ultimately who needs who more...RNR...Reservist

    Despite the fact that we are being integrated more with the RN and tahnk god its well overdue..the above facts do make our position slightly different from our full time colleagues

    Furthermore when a full time member of the armed forces fails a RNFT for example I believe they are provided with remedial assistance provided on an individual basis and that assistance is very forthcoming.....In the RNR if you fail you get kicked out....If we now come under fleet and we are to be a part of the Royal Navy is that to change..When I go away and I step out of line I expect to be dealt with under the NDA as a full timer would be..if I fail my RNFT should I not be treated the same...!!!

    Whilst those of us who have passed can take the high ground..in todays enviroment we have to face realities as they stand and approach these realities with a bit more common sense and a more flexible approach and an approach that is fair across the board!!
  14. You make 2 very interesting points there. Last first - yeah, it is very easy to take the moral high ground when you can run like a whippet. It's the old I'm alright jack attitude, I can do it, so if you can't you're a numpty. Very useful attitude.

    Secondly, the remedial training is a very good point. Yes we could do it off our own backs - which most of us do. But then we are all one big happy navy now. We should all be treated the same. To me that means either no rockport walk or we all have the opportunity, and it should also mean the girls meeting the same requirements as the lads.

    Apart from anything else, why should a 40 something suddenly not be required to meet the same fitness levels just because he's past an arbitrary age.

    In these days of a modern navy, where gay sailors are allowed to march in gay pride andwomen are allowed to go to sea, all I'm saying is that it might be worth looking at the RNFT and considering whether a 1.5 is a suitable or relevant measure of fitness.

    Also, the point about the fat git who tries hard so therefore is better - sorry it's a test of fitness not a test of character.

    Rant over. Pass or fail at least I know I will have tried my best. :evil:
  15. Isnt some thought being given to allowing alternative tests - swimming or rowing for example?
  16. Hang on a mo.

    The RN and RNR need people who are fit to fight, not just numbers to impress the statisticians. Many RN/RNR personnel are not deploying to Ships any more - instead they will be on land in Iraq, Afganistan, Lebanon (!), etc. It is _not_ hard to run 1.5 miles in c12 minutes. The Army have to do it in 10.5 mins.

    I fully support the idea of RNR bods being RTU'd if they can't do this. They may be reservist, but if they want to play the Armed Forces game then they have to be of a reasonable standard of fitness. Granted, their employers may be pissed off, but if they are not fit then they are of little use as deployed personnel.

    Officer Cadets at BRNC have to perform the fitness test in their first week, and I understand the MSFT is now being performed at AIB. I can see no logical argument against this.

    The tests are devised by the Institute of Naval Medicine and have been found to be representative of general fitness - as are the remedial training programmes for those who fail.

    Oh, and the swimming test is not hard to pass. Two lengths of a pool then treading water for 3 mins - bloody hell, I am the most shit swimmer in the Fleet and I passed it!
  17. You have my vote - but with one over-riding caveat.

    RTU for not being up to the standard is a fact of life and, in principle, one I support but, regrettably, I have heard of courses (POLC for a couple of my guys in recent years as an example) where 1 or 2 people failed the Fitness bit and were RTU'd which then brought the viable numbers on course below the 'safety' level and the whole course was scrapped (1 day in when everyone had arranged time off work etc etc.)

    The argument was that the course had to have a minimum number of students, and with a heavy emphasis on fitness, anyone who had fallen at the first hurdle was going to be a liability to themselves and others.

    I can't help agreeing with the sentiment but find the fall out implications a bit galling.

    This has also happened for other reasons than fitness (I think I remember one course being pushed pretty close to the wire because some of the students had turned up without a full set of docs). Whatever the reason though this is (IMHO) total bo**ocks - there HAS to be a better way of doing it than sending the whole course home because someone fails fitness (or twists an ankle) - it's not like these courses are preliminaries for Olympic competition.

    Anyone else got any personal experiences to support this - or clever suggestions that could be fed up the food chain?
  18. I think I'll agree to differ on this one :wink:
  19. I'm a bit confused..!!

    It was my understanding certianly for the LRCC not sure about SRCC that it was necessary to be medically certificated prior to attending the course and that this was to take place within 28 days of the course. As part of this it is necessary to complete the RN fitness test by either bleep test or 1.5 mile run.

    Therefore if this is the case why are people failing the fitness when they arrive on course and.....
    If you pass the bleep test prior to attendance of the course then as far as the Navy is concerned you are fit for duty to the Navys standard how then in the space of a week can I be deemed unfit simply because another element of the test is applied...
    In order for this to be a legitimate surely it should be the case that in order to pass the RNFT that you must pass both the bleep test and 1.5k run..!!

    The reason for the choice in the RNFT is due to the fact that as stated before some people have a good fitness level overall but are not able to run.....is this not why senior rates ad people over a certian age are allowed to do the rockport walk rather than run..

    If it is the inference of previous messages that as we are now spending more time land based in Afghanistan, Iraq etc that there is a need to be able to run 1.5km to be deemed fit to deploy how can SR's who pass the Rockport Walk be deemed as fit on the basis that this option is taken for medical reasons i.e. it is not suitbale for them to run due to age etc etc.....how are these people therefore deployable theatres as described..

    It seems to me that the whole issue is contradiction, inflexibility and double standards.

    As a trouble making litte s**t, afterall what is this site for are we suggesting that if you cant pass a 1.5 mile run then you are unable to fulfil your role as a good leader...I for one have met a number of people that whilst passed the fitness test with flying colours on their LRCC I would not follow into the water..!!!
  20. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    May I suggest that if someone starts firing at you, most would get close to the four minute mile

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