RN wins Battle Of Britain ? ? ?

Maxi_77 said:
Lingyai said:
Maxi_77 said:
Lingyai said:
Just goes to show that some people fight wars and some (academic bookworms) sit around writing about shit they know nothing about.
The majority of so called (normaly self proffesed) academics have no real world experience other than that they find in the library.
Those that can do. Those that can't.............. well you know.
Your view of academics is somewhat old fashioned, you will find that today many are very involved in 'doing'. The company I work for has very close relationships with two of our local universities and we get considerable practical assistance from them in solving problems. My son also is a university lecturer and is works in the area of flood prevention and has done a lot of work on affordable flood prevention for developing countrie especially where extensive logging has taken place. It is also quite likely that the key chips in your mobile phone is the result of work carried out at one of our local universities, work that was so successful that they created what is now a very successful company out of the research.

Not all academics cannot 'do' in fact more and more can.

Peter
Not convinced as I can only go by my experiences, although I do appreciate your point of view considering the offspring's job and all that...
AS I said it is real current experience both through my own work and knowledfge of what is going on elsewhere. Universities today as cash generating machines, and they can only sell if they have working products that people want to buy. Why do you think companies who succeed through technical innovation locate themselves close to universities and develop close liaison with them. Not only that I have had a number of graduate apprentices working for me over the past few years and they were some bright cookies.

Peter
I agree and we have nothing but trouble in our industry with graduates being whingeing non hackers who don't like getting their fingernails dirty. Nothing against them in principle but like I said "in my experience" bit of a waste of victuals, unlike the many ex RN and Army lads (99% of the time)
 
Letter from today's Times that adds light on this debate...

Did Germany's fear of the Royal Navy win the war?

Sir, Churchill not only praised “the Few†(which included 56 Royal Navy pilots) in his famous speech 66 years ago, he also praised the other airmen in Bomber Command who had harried the enemy across the Channel and beyond (report, Aug 24).
There is no doubt that, had “the Few†(and radar and the Observer Corps) failed, the Royal Navy would have fought valiantly to stop any invasion of our shores. It would probably have succeeded but, without air supremacy, that would have been at great cost.

But the main point is that the Battle of Britain was the first time that air-to-air combat reversed the outcome of an enemy’s major strategic plan. The invasion did not take place for a number of reasons. Not least of these was the Luftwaffe’s inability to subdue the RAF, the overrun of time that the belligerence of Fighter Command caused to the invasion plans, making weather in the Channel a serious issue, and the threat of the world’s most powerful navy protecting its own shores.

This points not to a conclusion that the Battle of Britain was not a victory, but that this nation and its Armed Forces acted in a way which surprised, weakened and demoralised the German High Command to such an extent that they allowed its leader to turn his attention towards the East where, incidentally, a slower but very similar situation forced the Germans eventually to retreat again.

September 15, Battle of Britain Day, is a time for celebration, for it marked a turning point when our island nation, standing virtually alone, turned back a hitherto victorious barbaric regime, giving a breathing space for an eventual victory over the tyranny of Nazism. Had “the Few†not fought so bravely I have no doubt that the world would be a very different place today.


MICHAEL A. FOPP
Director General
Royal Air Force Museum
London NW9

source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,174-2327527,00.html
 

mophead

Lantern Swinger
rosinacarley said:
That is more like it! Did you see that U-571 (I think it was called) about the first enigma machine captured? And at the end was a little acknowledgement that HMS BULLDOG actually did the deed rather than the Yanks. And I believe they are remaking The Dambusters with some Americans in the Sqn! Dear old Guy must be spinning in his grave!
Just a small correcrion;there was a yank in the original 617 Sqd...M.McCartney,from I think New york
 
mophead said:
rosinacarley said:
That is more like it! Did you see that U-571 (I think it was called) about the first enigma machine captured? And at the end was a little acknowledgement that HMS BULLDOG actually did the deed rather than the Yanks. And I believe they are remaking The Dambusters with some Americans in the Sqn! Dear old Guy must be spinning in his grave!
Just a small correcrion;there was a yank in the original 617 Sqd...M.McCartney,from I think New york
Then I stand corrected. A similar thread is running called The Few, and Old Hand has made my point in a more lucid and articulate fashion, namely that what seems fun to us, that is an opportunity to take the mickey out of crabs, is extremely hurtful to proud and brave men who possessed characteristics like pride in our country, in not letting their mates down, exteme bravery sometimes in the face of overwhelming odds, stiff upper lip and all that, and most of these men are in their 80s. We should show more respect.
 
rosinacarley said:
mophead said:
rosinacarley said:
That is more like it! Did you see that U-571 (I think it was called) about the first enigma machine captured? And at the end was a little acknowledgement that HMS BULLDOG actually did the deed rather than the Yanks. And I believe they are remaking The Dambusters with some Americans in the Sqn! Dear old Guy must be spinning in his grave!
Just a small correcrion;there was a yank in the original 617 Sqd...M.McCartney,from I think New york
Then I stand corrected. A similar thread is running called The Few, and Old Hand has made my point in a more lucid and articulate fashion, namely that what seems fun to us, that is an opportunity to take the mickey out of crabs, is extremely hurtful to proud and brave men who possessed characteristics like pride in our country, in not letting their mates down, exteme bravery sometimes in the face of overwhelming odds, stiff upper lip and all that, and most of these men are in their 80s. We should show more respect.
Or develop a sense of humour perhaps?
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
Only for you Rosina!! Ding, Dong!!! :D

Actually the men in skirts used to keep foot long , inch think strips of leather up their sleeves and wade into us kids key-Stone Cop fashion whenever we got a little over enthusiastic. Bastards.

SF
 
SILVER_FOX said:
Only for you Rosina!! Ding, Dong!!! :D

Actually the men in skirts used to keep foot long , inch think strips of leather up their sleeves and wade into us kids key-Stone Cop fashion whenever we got a little over enthusiastic. Bastards.

SF
I had a chemistry teacher like that, I went to a CB school for A levels and was the only girl in the class. I think I was the first and only girl he ever taught! The first class we had he had caught some smallie miscreant up to no good, and made him wait in the prep room between the chem and physics labs so the lad could watch him instructing us whilst stretching and warming up a leather strap. After about 10 mins I could see this lad was near hysterical and when the teacher excused himself from teaching to deal with the lad, he let him go with a warning. The mere threat of the strap was enough to put the fear of god into the lad!
 
SILVER_FOX said:
Rosina, when you say you HAD a chemistry teacher, you mean .........? :roll:

SF
No I meant that there was this chemistry teacher who taught me chemistry. Funny you know, but not everything is about the other !
 
Always_a_Civvy said:
Letter from today's Times that adds light on this debate...

Did Germany's fear of the Royal Navy win the war?

Sir, Churchill not only praised “the Few†(which included 56 Royal Navy pilots) in his famous speech 66 years ago, he also praised the other airmen in Bomber Command who had harried the enemy across the Channel and beyond (report, Aug 24).
There is no doubt that, had “the Few†(and radar and the Observer Corps) failed, the Royal Navy would have fought valiantly to stop any invasion of our shores. It would probably have succeeded but, without air supremacy, that would have been at great cost.

But the main point is that the Battle of Britain was the first time that air-to-air combat reversed the outcome of an enemy’s major strategic plan. The invasion did not take place for a number of reasons. Not least of these was the Luftwaffe’s inability to subdue the RAF, the overrun of time that the belligerence of Fighter Command caused to the invasion plans, making weather in the Channel a serious issue, and the threat of the world’s most powerful navy protecting its own shores.

This points not to a conclusion that the Battle of Britain was not a victory, but that this nation and its Armed Forces acted in a way which surprised, weakened and demoralised the German High Command to such an extent that they allowed its leader to turn his attention towards the East where, incidentally, a slower but very similar situation forced the Germans eventually to retreat again.

September 15, Battle of Britain Day, is a time for celebration, for it marked a turning point when our island nation, standing virtually alone, turned back a hitherto victorious barbaric regime, giving a breathing space for an eventual victory over the tyranny of Nazism. Had “the Few†not fought so bravely I have no doubt that the world would be a very different place today.


MICHAEL A. FOPP
Director General
Royal Air Force Museum
London NW9

source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,174-2327527,00.html
I agree, had the RAF not defeated the LUftwaffe so heroically the world may well have been a different place, had the Germans launched Sealion (elsewhere I have suggested that perhaps Sealion was never a 'real' operation rather a threat to try to generated a negotiated peace) the cream of the German army would have either bled to death in southern England or drowned in the Channel and there could have been no invasion of Russia in 41. Italy would not have been reinforced in North Africa and Greece and possibly Vichy France may have seen another 'winning side to join. What ifs can be fun but at the end mean little.

At the end of the day the RAF won a spectacular victory over the Luftwaffe in 1940, but it like most of the other great battles was not the winning stroke that won the war rather part of the winning process.

Whilst one can never devalue the courage and determination of those young pilots in 1940 they could not have done the job without the concepts of command and control that the old fogeys of the RAF had developed and put to practical use along with the radar stations of Chain Home.

Peter
 
Did anyone watch the C4 programme tonight 'Who downed Douglas Bader'? If you didn't they were looking to prove if he had been shot down or had had a collision.
However there was an interesting side story in that they found a spittie piloted by a WO Bostock, and found his flying helmet and goggles still intact. He survived the war. They were able to rebuilt the aircraft to a degree and showed WO Bostock's what they had done, and then presented her the goggles and helmet. The dear lady was near in tears. That is what this kind of revisiting of history is all about. Not traipsing over history for the benefit of academics.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
rosinacarley said:
Did anyone watch the C4 programme tonight 'Who downed Douglas Bader'? If you didn't they were looking to prove if he had been shot down or had had a collision.
However there was an interesting side story in that they found a spittie piloted by a WO Bostock, and found his flying helmet and goggles still intact. He survived the war. They were able to rebuilt the aircraft to a degree and showed WO Bostock's what they had done, and then presented her the goggles and helmet. The dear lady was near in tears. That is what this kind of revisiting of history is all about. Not traipsing over history for the benefit of academics.
Did WO Bostock undergo a sex change after the war? :lol:
 
janner said:
rosinacarley said:
Did anyone watch the C4 programme tonight 'Who downed Douglas Bader'? If you didn't they were looking to prove if he had been shot down or had had a collision.
However there was an interesting side story in that they found a spittie piloted by a WO Bostock, and found his flying helmet and goggles still intact. He survived the war. They were able to rebuilt the aircraft to a degree and showed WO Bostock's wife what they had done, and then presented her the goggles and helmet. The dear lady was near in tears. That is what this kind of revisiting of history is all about. Not traipsing over history for the benefit of academics.
Did WO Bostock undergo a sex change after the war? :lol:
What yer talkin abhat Janner
 
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