RN wins Battle Of Britain ? ? ?

[mad_collie]

Thought you boys would have picked up on this one, will cause no end of fun in all the 'purple' establishments.

RN Wins BoB?

 

[imom1406]

I note that the "few" are busy sending "Mr Angry" letters to the Daily Mail...It's the only seriously big thing the crabs can boast about.....lets see....Spanish Armada, Trafalgar, Nile, Finesterre, Jutland (technically a win), North Sea, blah blah blah etc. etc......so you can understand crabs getting a little tetchy when their great acheivment has to be shared with the senior service.

[stands back and waits for incoming]

Captain Coward of HMS Brilliant (god bless him) once said to our tame crab who was with us on a jolly..."RAF tradition?!?! your service hasn't been around long enough to have traditions....bad habits maybe....but traditions!!"

 

[RoofRat]

Love it, love it. :lol:
I live in a village that has a lot of ex Crabs, due to the fact we used to have a RAF airfield here. We are all good mates but we do like to banter. Thanks for the Ammo guys, particularly the the Traditions Imom.That has just got to be used.
:lol:
RoofRat

 

[rosinacarley]

I think the article is technically correct, but Hilter could not launch Sealion until he had air superiority. Of course there were many ships in the channel at the time but they were not needed because of the air force - gauls me to say so as a girl whose father was on the Russian Convoys! But why do these recidivist historians feel the need to denegrate these old men who fought with honour and bravery over 60 years ago, how does it change our view of history - not a jot.

 

[imom1406]

I think the article is technically correct, but Hilter could not launch Sealion until he had air superiority. Of course there were many ships in the channel at the time but they were not needed because of the air force - gauls me to say so as a girl whose father was on the Russian Convoys! But why do these recidivist historians feel the need to denegrate these old men who fought with honour and bravery over 60 years ago, how does it change our view of history - not a jot.

The RAF did an amazing job, and deserve the plaudits for wha they did, incredibly brave men.....However (didn't you hear that coming) ....we only re-visit history to re-align the truth, don't forget that History is usually written by the victors and it is important to understand the truth...

Things like it has only been in recent years that the received wisdom of the USA UK and other empire allies won the war and we didn't (for political reasons) really acknowledge the contribution the Russians made..

The truth behind Bletchly park has led us to re-write a lot of history....we also like to hide our shame .......look how we got Hong Kong from the chinese..


As long as the evidence stacks up, io am all for re-riting history!

 

[rosinacarley]

....we only re-visit history to re-align the truth, don't forget that History is usually written by the victors and it is important to understand the truth...

As long as the evidence stacks up, io am all for re-riting history!

But do you believe the evidence does stack up, I don't.

Have you ever read those two books 'What if...' and 'More What if'...' Is is counterfactual history? They certainly make you think.

 

[imom1406]

....we only re-visit history to re-align the truth, don't forget that History is usually written by the victors and it is important to understand the truth...

As long as the evidence stacks up, io am all for re-riting history!

But do you believe the evidence does stack up, I don't.

Have you ever read those two books 'What if...' and 'More What if'...' Is is counterfactual history? They certainly make you think.

I haven't read the detail, but i have no reason to doubt that FM Jodel believed that even if he got Air superiority, his invasion barges would be turned into "Mincemeat" by the RN, we had vast quantities of minesweepers at the time counteracting the efforts of the German Navy to pin larger ships into port or out of the way (this strategy failed), the Luftwaffe also had a drastic shortage of armour pierceing bombs which could seriously damage our battleships.

I think the article written was more about stemming the invasion rather than what has become the battle of britain.

It is still fun to wind up the crabs though!

 

[whitemouse]

If you wait long enough (until Mel G has completed his penance) you will see that the BoB was won by the US !
:wink:

 

[rosinacarley]

That is more like it! Did you see that U-571 (I think it was called) about the first enigma machine captured? And at the end was a little acknowledgement that HMS BULLDOG actually did the deed rather than the Yanks. And I believe they are remaking The Dambusters with some Americans in the Sqn! Dear old Guy must be spinning in his grave!

 

[mad_collie]

That is more like it! Did you see that U-571 (I think it was called) about the first enigma machine captured? And at the end was a little acknowledgement that HMS BULLDOG actually did the deed rather than the Yanks. And I believe they are remaking The Dambusters with some Americans in the Sqn! Dear old Guy must be spinning in his grave!

They are, apparently they wont be calling the labrador nigger either. More re-writing of historical facts . . .

 

[imom1406]

That is Hollywood, not historians....they live in a completely different world...trust me!!

We had the Enigma machines before they joined the fray!

Coutesy of Wikepedia!

Bletchley Park made no useful headway into Kriegsmarine Enigma until mid-1940 with the capture of the armed trawler, Polares. The latter yielded enough intact cryptographic material that by June or July 1940, .

 

[rosinacarley]

I think it is fine if you are a bit of a history buff like we clearly are, but it is difficult for some people to separate history and hollywood.

 

[imom1406]

Americans you mean!!

 

[rosinacarley]

And kids as well, they believe what they see in the movies which is sad. Although I believe recently history has become the new gardening, there are two history channels on sky and both the BBC and C4 do excellent history programmes, I loved Two Men in a Trench - who would have thought that two archaelogists digging in a field would be so enthralling! Also I would not kick Neil Oliver out of bed for eating crisps!

 

[imom1406]

I prefer chips in bed, you can keep the salt or ketchup in your belly button!

Since the freedom of information act and the timed release of many historical documents, we get to see a lot more of what really went on. And i guess that is why we are re-visiting history more and more....a good thing too!!

 

[rosinacarley]

Does the ketchup not get all fluffy?

As for FoI, I am curious why some WW2 docs need to be classified for 100 years, what is that all about.

And on a slightly different note, what do we think about the 'shot at dawns' receiving a pardon?

 

[imom1406]

Does the ketchup not get all fluffy?

As for FoI, I am curious why some WW2 docs need to be classified for 100 years, what is that all about.

And on a slightly different note, what do we think about the 'shot at dawns' receiving a pardon?

I maintain a scrupulously clean belly button...I still think there are many quite embarassing things that the Govt don't want to release until that generation and the memory fades.

Also very happy about the pardon...i know it was a different time and culture, but our understanding of PTSD, and other mental disorders has grown so much that i believe that they were unfortunate casualties of war like any other person killed at the front.

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

We live in an age that thrives on sensationalism and "headline grabbing". If a historian wants fame and fortune, it is now so simple; take a few hard facts and change the emphasis. David Irving had a go at it and, unfortunately for him, is now in the slammer.

General Jodel is hardly a good authority on tactical considerations for SEALION. Like most brown-jobs, whatever their flag, Naval capability would be a mystery to him, eclipsed only by his ignorance of air warfare.

The current argument is that our air superiority didn't prevent the invasion of Crete or Norway. The distance that aircraft had to fly is quietly dismissed. Luftwaffe bombers flying from forward aerodromes in France would have been more than a distraction for any RN surface ship.

If the new debate gives long overdue credit to Admls Somerville and Cunningham, though, it can't all be bad.

 

[rosinacarley]

[quote="imom1406]
I still think there are many quite embarassing things that the Govt don't want to release until that generation and the memory fades.

Also very happy about the pardon...i know it was a different time and culture, but our understanding of PTSD, and other mental disorders has grown so much that i believe that they were unfortunate casualties of war like any other person killed at the front.[/quote]

I wonder what the embarrassing things might be, the amateur historian in me has had her interest picqued.

On the pardon front, I am a little more sceptical - when I went to find my birth parents I had to have something called a section 51 interview. One thing that the counsellor said to me has always stuck in my mind and that is that one should not look at the 60s (or in our case WW1 or WW2) with 21st century eyes.

They were treated in accordance with what was expected within society at the time. Does not make it right, and we are re-writing history.

And that brings us full circle back to our discussion about the BoB!

I rest my case m'lud.

 

[MightyCrash]

BRILLAINT! I have of course sent this out to my fellow RAF workers - I'm sure I'll get gash jobs for a few weeks, but by god it'll be worth it!