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RN to mobilise reservists to do exercise for 5 months...

clanky

War Hero
Perhaps the answer is to create a branch along the lines of a seagoing MPGS. Employed on short term contracts, used solely for the FP role normally fulfilled by the RNR GSSR branch. Recruiting from the ex rn, with a get-in clause for suitably qualified RNRs. It would fill the gap for those not prepared to commit to a full career, and/or resevists on career breaks.
Theres a moral component to this question. Wearing your country's uniform, either full of part time, constitutes a commitment which cannot be compared to any civilian occupation. If for whatever reason you can no longer honour that commitment then you should leave. If we expect to have the option to "cherry pick" which commitments we are going to honour its time for all of us to call it a day.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Some very good points, however:

1. An RNR person needs to exercise/train to become a viable augmentee, much the same as a regular. It would be somewhat remiss to send someone to 'war' without having brought them 'up to speed' with what to expect. Because you do a civilian job, have been in the RNR or RN "for ages", "my mate told me" & "I read the papers" doesn't count.

2. The fact that someone may consider themselves an expert in the civilian workplace & an expert in the RN simultaneously does not mean for a nano-second they have current experience in either. Currency (not financial) is the key.

3. One has to question the oft quoted observation that communications are poor whilst failing to accept that it's a two-way issue. Bleating on here will not solve it, if you adopt the "no-one told me" line, think about "why".

4. Since all trawls for manpower always end in an "end of the world is nigh" proclamation, does not mean the "dawning of Revealations" is imminent, merely that the author seeks resolution.

5. Why not have an RN & RNR that says "can do" rather than: "Why should I" Or "It was never like this previously" ?

6. Er, that's it really.

Edited to add:

7.Those conceited enough to think that they are above exercises and only do "the real thing" are, without doubt a complete TF110 & deserves the inevitable outcome.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
clanky said:
Perhaps the answer is to create a branch along the lines of a seagoing MPGS...

We've got one - it's called the "Topmast Squad System".

Oh I forgot; that didn't work either... :roll: :wink:
 

TF110

Lantern Swinger
"Why not have an RN & RNR that says "can do" rather than: "Why should I" Or "It was never like this previously" "

Fair point - BUT the problem is that the average reservist will probably do one, maybe two mobilisations in their time in the RNR. Using one of them to go and sit on a ship doing an exercise, and not an operational role will not appeal to many people. People want to do ops, people want to do their roles, but what they don't want to do is get treated as a disposable asset by the RN to fill billets for a long term exercise. If you want people, sure offer it up as an opportunity - but dont' threaten people with the warning of mobilisation if they don't volunteer.

Yes we need to make the RNR more flexible, but fundamentally it exists to do niche roles in support of the RN on ops. Tapping it as a source of general service manpower is to not use it logically. There are only a small number of people with the ability to volunteer to go at short notice - therefore if every time you do a group deployment (once every year - 18 months), plus maintain ongoing operations and carry out compulsory mobilisation, you will very quickly run out of the willing volunteers. You will then see people leave, who would have stayed for operations, because they didn't join to give up their life for a pointless 6 month exercise. If they wanted that, they'd have gone full time! All you'll do is denude the manpower pool of available people to go on operations.

If the RNR is stupid enough to maintain this policy, then I can see a lot of people walk over this.

Once more, COMMARES and his staff has proven themselves to be completely out of touch with reality.
 

clanky

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
clanky said:
Perhaps the answer is to create a branch along the lines of a seagoing MPGS...

We've got one - it's called the "Topmast Squad System".

Oh I forgot; that didn't work either... :roll: :wink:

Topshaft not working? Shurely some mistake :thanks:
 

mazza_magoo

Lantern Swinger
ok, my input now for what it's worth.
Been in the RNR for 23 years, and seen a lot of changes, some good, some bad. While i might not agree with this new concept of mobilising people to cover excercises, we are here, as a few have quoted to cover the RN in times of 'stretch, crisis and war'. Now it would seem to me that the RN is suffering from one or two of the above, so it would seem reasonable that they may wish to call on us to help out during this time.
We may not like the fact that we could be called up for something we would not have chosen for ourselves, but as I see it we, like our regular counterparts don't really have much choice in the matter, or at least we should not. We are all very happy to take our pay (whether its correct or not, standing by for incoming on that one alone) every month, and our bounty every year, I think its a bit off to start bleating when the Crown asks for a bit of a return on its investment in us.
As I said we should, like our regular counterparts have no choice in when or where or why we go, but we do have a choice. I'm sure that none of you need me to tell you what that choice is.
So come on guys just get on with it. :thumright:

Mazza
 

Six_and_a_Half

Lantern Swinger
I think the whole "times of stretch, tension, crisis and war" line really answers the issue here. The Royal Navy is stretched for manpower, it is a time of tension in the Middle-East (hence probably a reason, not the reason for why the RN is stretched) and certainly by the accounts I've heard from friends who have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan I think war is a justifiable term.

So the really big question that I'm curious about is not "Why am I being mobilised?" but rather "Why haven't I been mobilised already?" Regardless of whether its an exercise or an operation, we all joined the RNR in the hope of supporting the RN in the "times of stretch, crisis and war", so my only complaint with the Andrew at the moment is its hesitation in deploying us.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
TF110 said:
Using one of them to go and sit on a ship doing an exercise, and not an operational role will not appeal to many people. People want to do ops,..

...If the RNR is stupid enough to maintain this policy, then I can see a lot of people walk over this.

Once more, COMMARES and his staff has proven themselves to be completely out of touch with reality.

Again you, not COMMARES, eloquently describe the problem regarding ill-informed individuals who feel they are at operational performance standard.

You're not unless you train. Contrary to what you may think, you ain't Superman Lofty.
 

TF110

Lantern Swinger
"You're not unless you train. Contrary to what you may think, you ain't Superman Lofty. "

I completely agree with you and I never said I was. However I put far more than the minimum time in every year to keep myself current. However, as I pointed out there is a limit to the number of times you can mobilise a reservist before you lose them - wasting that for a jolly seems utterly pointless as you will be unable to use those skills again for a long time (if at all).
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
TF110 said:
...wasting that for a jolly seems utterly pointless as you will be unable to use those skills again for a long time (if at all).

Training keeps you current. It's not a "jolly" as you put it, however you may benefit foreign travel at Crown expense.

I'm absolutely sure the command & control organisation on an operational warship would welcome your valid contribution & immense experience with regard p*ss poor C3 organisation & how best to get it to your liking.

Can't understand why a person of your expertise hasn't been mobilised sooner, TBH.
 

danny

War Hero
itsamuppet said:
I can and have been arsed to support my full time bretheren, and not just swanning around well out of danger on a STUFT ship, but frontline.

My problem is that we are now being deployed, not in a time of war, but because we have a seriously overstretched armed forces.

But isnt the fact that we are at war. Infact 2 countrys the reason that we are overstreached.
Life in a blue one. Either suck it in. Or leave its not hard really.
Reservists should expect to be mobalised to cover positions left vacant because full time troop shave been sent to the front line.
There are a lot of people volenteering to go front line (i have) why shoudnt reservists have to cover these positions.
 

jesse650

War Hero
Hmmmm "the real thing"???

even when we (RNR loggies) are deployed on "only" exercises we are doing the "real" thing. We cannot pretend to shift people, kit and mail round the world. We either do or we don't. And generally speaking we do, we have loggies deployed around the world as i write this.

The AWFP guys are doing a job the navy requires of them as well, and doing it well.

The other smaller specialisations/branches are all training and deploying round the world....

all is not rosy in the garden but I think it never will be :thumright: we all joined up and signed up to be trained and then mobilised if the navy saw fit. If they ask for volunteers and dont get them and the finger then points at you......read above :lol:

PS more than willing to go....need to be mobilised first and the protection that (supposedly) brings
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
The deal is 2 weeks a year training, plus mobilisations when you are needed on operations. The deal is not 5 months training whenever we feel like it plus whenever you are needed on operations.

If the RN/RNR cannot fit the necessary training in 2 weeks a year is its own fault. The fact that courses like the 518 course and BSSC are only available during the week has to be part of the reason why people are taking so long to reach the trained strength. Is there any reason why these cannot be done over two weekends? Anything longer than 2-3 weeks simply has to be fitted in pre-deployment.
 
I shall be as diplomatic and huggy as possible over this issue, as stated previously I'm not a weekend warrior.

Fcuk off if you dont like it, what part of "support the regular armed forces" dont you people understand? jesus, these are your brethren your shitting on.
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
At the end of the day, the RN has to realise that one or two K a year does not pay the rent, does not send the kids to school and is no substitute for a real job. If you want us to turn into an organisation where people join for three years, do a tour and then leave, then fine. However, that is not what the RNR is at the moment. It takes years to get onto the trained strength, and generally people stay for a hell of a lot longer than they do in the TA, where people generally leave after three years. We are in it for the long term, not the latest fad that our political masters seek to impose on us.

You may say that if you can't justify yourself you should be cut, but sadly today even the TA, overstretched and overdeployed as it is, is facing funding cuts from this government. It may take an operational disaster where many of our servicemen and women get killed before the government realises the need to fund our armed forces properly. But trying to shoehorn the naval reserves to suit essentially what are two land wars is not going to do this country any favours. If we had followed the received wisdom at the time of the Falklands we would have concentrated on our anti-Soviet anti-submarine capacity and scrapped all our amphibious ships and aircraft carriers. Let's not forget that our armed forces are there to guard against all eventualities, and this is particularly important for our reserves, which cost a fraction of a standing naval force, but are there to provide capability just in case. It takes years to build up operational capability. If you try to force us into the mould that suits the current wars, you may find that you have nothing left the next time something different pops up.

It is easy to say if you don't like it then leave. Are you prepared to put up with the consequences if everyone takes your advice and does?
 

GSSR_Vvd

Lantern Swinger
hammockhead said:
At the end of the day, the RN has to realise that one or two K a year does not pay the rent, does not send the kids to school and is no substitute for a real job.

It may take an operational disaster where many of our servicemen and women get killed before the government realises the need to fund our armed forces properly.

But trying to shoehorn the naval reserves to suit essentially what are two land wars is not going to do this country any favours.

:rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo:

POINT 1: If we wanted it a a full time job to support the family, send the kids to school, pay the rent ect ect then you would have joined up full time. When you went to your recruitment presentation did they tell you it would? i'd be very shocked if it did!!!

POINT 2: what do you call the deaths of our service personel so far? do they not count to your little theory?

POINT 3: Two land wars? If you would have been mobilised in the last few years (or even spoke to anyone from your unit who has) you would know that although the main part of the conflicts are happening on land there are actually two oil rigs out there which need protecting as they produce around 95% of the income for the country we saved from tyrants. Cant really see anyone other than the Navy doing that job can you?

We are a reserve force whic are to be used so the RN can do the job they are TASKED to do. Now if it means that i have to stand guard with an SA80 in the middle of some crap place with what some may call a jolly so someone who has skills which are needed in theatre can actually do the job to aid our progress then i will be more than happy to do it. Just like i would be more than happy to go front line if i was needed.

There are a few people on here who only seem to drip on about how crap the RNR is and that they know how it should be done. Well one thing for them, and i'll prepare for an attack of my loyalties, but shut the **** up. Just get on with your job. if you cant do that then go deliver papers to top your earnings up.

Rant over!! :whew:

P.s sorry for any typos it's late and i'm tired :thumright:
 

mazza_magoo

Lantern Swinger
GSSR_Vvd said:
hammockhead said:
At the end of the day, the RN has to realise that one or two K a year does not pay the rent, does not send the kids to school and is no substitute for a real job.

It may take an operational disaster where many of our servicemen and women get killed before the government realises the need to fund our armed forces properly.

But trying to shoehorn the naval reserves to suit essentially what are two land wars is not going to do this country any favours.

:rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo:

POINT 1: If we wanted it a a full time job to support the family, send the kids to school, pay the rent ect ect then you would have joined up full time. When you went to your recruitment presentation did they tell you it would? i'd be very shocked if it did!!!

POINT 2: what do you call the deaths of our service personel so far? do they not count to your little theory?

POINT 3: Two land wars? If you would have been mobilised in the last few years (or even spoke to anyone from your unit who has) you would know that although the main part of the conflicts are happening on land there are actually two oil rigs out there which need protecting as they produce around 95% of the income for the country we saved from tyrants. Cant really see anyone other than the Navy doing that job can you?

We are a reserve force whic are to be used so the RN can do the job they are TASKED to do. Now if it means that i have to stand guard with an SA80 in the middle of some crap place with what some may call a jolly so someone who has skills which are needed in theatre can actually do the job to aid our progress then i will be more than happy to do it. Just like i would be more than happy to go front line if i was needed.

There are a few people on here who only seem to drip on about how crap the RNR is and that they know how it should be done. Well one thing for them, and i'll prepare for an attack of my loyalties, but shut the **** up. Just get on with your job. if you cant do that then go deliver papers to top your earnings up.
Rant over!! :whew:

P.s sorry for any typos it's late and i'm tired :thumright:

couldn't have put it better myself!

MM
 

noemis

Lantern Swinger
GSSR_Vvd said:
hammockhead said:
At the end of the day, the RN has to realise that one or two K a year does not pay the rent, does not send the kids to school and is no substitute for a real job.

It may take an operational disaster where many of our servicemen and women get killed before the government realises the need to fund our armed forces properly.

But trying to shoehorn the naval reserves to suit essentially what are two land wars is not going to do this country any favours.

:rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo:

POINT 1: If we wanted it a a full time job to support the family, send the kids to school, pay the rent ect ect then you would have joined up full time. When you went to your recruitment presentation did they tell you it would? i'd be very shocked if it did!!!

POINT 2: what do you call the deaths of our service personel so far? do they not count to your little theory?

POINT 3: Two land wars? If you would have been mobilised in the last few years (or even spoke to anyone from your unit who has) you would know that although the main part of the conflicts are happening on land there are actually two oil rigs out there which need protecting as they produce around 95% of the income for the country we saved from tyrants. Cant really see anyone other than the Navy doing that job can you?

We are a reserve force whic are to be used so the RN can do the job they are TASKED to do. Now if it means that i have to stand guard with an SA80 in the middle of some crap place with what some may call a jolly so someone who has skills which are needed in theatre can actually do the job to aid our progress then i will be more than happy to do it. Just like i would be more than happy to go front line if i was needed.

There are a few people on here who only seem to drip on about how crap the RNR is and that they know how it should be done. Well one thing for them, and i'll prepare for an attack of my loyalties, but shut the **** up. Just get on with your job. if you cant do that then go deliver papers to top your earnings up.

Rant over!! :whew:

P.s sorry for any typos it's late and i'm tired :thumright:

Spot on mate! I'm in the Royal Navy Reserves, the Royal Naval Reserve is dead IMHO. I'm mobilised operationally in the next month or two. In my civilian job I work 6 days a week 11 hours a day (not including the 30 mins each way commute), and I get 25 days holiday a year of which at least 12 are used for ORT. I'm looking forward to the break!! :w00t:
 

Bisley

War Hero
noemis said:
GSSR_Vvd said:
hammockhead said:
At the end of the day, the RN has to realise that one or two K a year does not pay the rent, does not send the kids to school and is no substitute for a real job.

It may take an operational disaster where many of our servicemen and women get killed before the government realises the need to fund our armed forces properly.

But trying to shoehorn the naval reserves to suit essentially what are two land wars is not going to do this country any favours.

:rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: :rambo:

POINT 1: If we wanted it a a full time job to support the family, send the kids to school, pay the rent ect ect then you would have joined up full time. When you went to your recruitment presentation did they tell you it would? i'd be very shocked if it did!!!

POINT 2: what do you call the deaths of our service personel so far? do they not count to your little theory?

POINT 3: Two land wars? If you would have been mobilised in the last few years (or even spoke to anyone from your unit who has) you would know that although the main part of the conflicts are happening on land there are actually two oil rigs out there which need protecting as they produce around 95% of the income for the country we saved from tyrants. Cant really see anyone other than the Navy doing that job can you?

We are a reserve force whic are to be used so the RN can do the job they are TASKED to do. Now if it means that i have to stand guard with an SA80 in the middle of some crap place with what some may call a jolly so someone who has skills which are needed in theatre can actually do the job to aid our progress then i will be more than happy to do it. Just like i would be more than happy to go front line if i was needed.

There are a few people on here who only seem to drip on about how crap the RNR is and that they know how it should be done. Well one thing for them, and i'll prepare for an attack of my loyalties, but shut the **** up. Just get on with your job. if you cant do that then go deliver papers to top your earnings up.

Rant over!! :whew:

P.s sorry for any typos it's late and i'm tired :thumright:

Spot on mate! I'm in the Royal Navy Reserves, the Royal Naval Reserve is dead IMHO. I'm mobilised operationally in the next month or two. In my civilian job I work 6 days a week 11 hours a day (not including the 30 mins each way commute), and I get 25 days holiday a year of which at least 12 are used for ORT. I'm looking forward to the break!! :w00t:


YOU MOBILISED!!! but who is going to sell them dodgy motors while you are away :money: :money: :money:
 
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