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RN Pscyhometric Examination - 2 points short to be a Writer

Good Morning, I am hopeful that I will be given some/any advice/help with regard to a friend's daughter who has recently taken the Psychometric Examination (after nearly completing 6 months at Navy College in Portsmouth) and has been advised that she did not gain the marks required to become a Writer. I do have to say that she missed out on being passed on for Interview for this Position due to 2 points/marks short of the required amount.

She has attended The Royal Navy Career's Office & they have been superb & subsequently offered her 6 other Positions within the Royal Navy which she did qualify for with her Examination marks. But, the young lady will not consider any of these roles as she is insisting (& with a lot of dedication that I truly think is an absolute assett to her character) that she will only take a Position as a Writer. Therefore, apparently the only route available to her is that she retakes the Examination in one year's time.

So, with the above precise information given, I would like to ask if anyone can advise if there is anything this young lady can do. Ultimately, I would like to fully, but politely, question the Royal Navy on this decision, but currently I do not have any information or web sites that can give me conclusive information, hence my rather long winded Forum. It would just seem practical that with her being 2 marks short is there in place the rigth for an Examiner to talk to her Instructor to get a full "all round" character report on, for example, her dedication, determination, morales etc & from this he can make the decision, that he will pass her for Interview, but maybe she would then have to gain marks in this Interview of 10% above the normal pass given if a Position of a Writer was to be offered.

Or can anyone advise that there are "Absolute" Rules & Regulations in Stone, so to speak, that do make reference to a Candidate being one, 2 or maybe 3 points below the pass mark of their choosen Position within the Navy. In other words absolute cyrstal 100% clarity is given that full marks allocated for each Profession have to be gained in the exam for this Position to be offered?

If that is the case, they I do have to say on a personal note, that the Navy are missing out on maybe a few excellent Candidatesd for say 2 points which they would make up in the Interview. I do know that my friend's young daughter will not consider any of the 6 positions offered because, as she did state to me, every Serving Person within the Royal Navy has a role/position to fullfil regardless of their rank for the Navy to fully function at his best. So could this put into question that if Candidates did actually decide that they would take a lower Position offered, not within the Department they would excel in or be able to transfer over to in later serving years, simply through 2 marks below their choosen vocation, then this could have serious & even disasterous consequnces if at anytime in the future the Royal Navy are asked to fullfil their role to defend Blighty - how can the working coggs turn & be as efficient & effective as they should be if some Serving Personal do not harbour their 110% dedication for the Position they accepted, rather than the Positon above that they were dedicated & wanted to fulfil.

Finally, I am now climbing off my upturned wooden orange box & posting this long winded forum. I just hope I have done her justice in the information, but please do ask if you need any further clarifications. OOtherwise I look forward to any help/advice or messages to ask me not to post another forum in the future, but to maybe write a book for Jackanory as I can easily send an adult to sleep, let alone a child!!! :roll:
 

chatsharris

Lantern Swinger
I have no experience in the AFCO, but as a WTR myself I know the rules are watertight on there. You let one person in then they all want in. If she doesn't have the marks she doesn't have the marks, and she's got to pull her finger out and sort it out if she really wants it that badly.
 

chatsharris

Lantern Swinger
Also as the navy is at manning balance, and the fact the recession is giving the RN a huge amount of applicants, they can afford to be choosy about who they pick. Awaiting a donkey punch from Ninja, but if she ain't making the grade, she ain't getting in!
 
Thanks for your prompt response chatsharris, and I do agree & understand your paragraph with a very down to earth sentance that she should pull her finger out and sort it out. I must admit both her and I were put in place last evening when my 10 year old (who is taking the 11+ this Saturday at his Grammar School & is fully aware as per many Teacher discussions, that if he does not meet the pass grades that are required in the 3 examinations then this September he will not be at the Grammar School - a fail mark is a fail mark & you cannot re-sit your 11+ as you can with an O Level or an A Level. Harsh words eh) well he quite simply stated, after she had explained, "Two points at the end of the day are 2 points. If you do not reach the required amount of marks set out then of course you will not pass, what would be the point in stating what marks are required if they can move the number by two marks. You failed". A very grounding statement from a young man with a rather adult head on his shoulders!!
 
I do have to say that with regards to Writer's Positions within the Royal Navy, they are very short at the moment and are having trouble recruiting enough. As for the other 6 positions she was offered, most are available in about a year's time. Amazingly, or I am just too niave, but the Army have confirmed that they would accept her with her qualifications etc as a Writer. But due to where her mum works, exactly the same place as myself, I do have to say that as with my son the Army is not/ will not be an option. And the young girl has continually stated that she wants to join the Navy. Looks like she will have to wait a year and reapply. Thanks again for your help.
 
A

angrydoc

Guest
I've always thought about this type of thing - if someone is one point short of the required mark, does it really make a difference? I've always resolved that a line has to be drawn somewhere, and that has to be absolute - if not then there's no point having a standard. GCSEs and A Levels get around this by granting grades to select percentages of candidates (top x% get an A*, the next y% get an A, etc.) but for something like a psychometric test I imagine it's a simple pass/fail thing.

It doesn't sound terribly sympathetic, but I suppose if she really wants to be a Writer (or Logs Pers now, I think) then she'll dig out and repeat the test when she is next able to.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
piewhacket said:
Good Morning, I am hopeful that I will be given some/any advice/help with regard to a friend's daughter who has recently taken the Psychometric Examination (after nearly completing 6 months at Navy College in Portsmouth) and has been advised that she did not gain the marks required to become a Writer. I do have to say that she missed out on being passed on for Interview for this Position due to 2 points/marks short of the required amount.

She has attended The Royal Navy Career's Office & they have been superb & subsequently offered her 6 other Positions within the Royal Navy which she did qualify for with her Examination marks. But, the young lady will not consider any of these roles as she is insisting (& with a lot of dedication that I truly think is an absolute assett to her character) that she will only take a Position as a Writer. Therefore, apparently the only route available to her is that she retakes the Examination in one year's time.

So, with the above precise information given, I would like to ask if anyone can advise if there is anything this young lady can do. Ultimately, I would like to fully, but politely, question the Royal Navy on this decision, but currently I do not have any information or web sites that can give me conclusive information, hence my rather long winded Forum. It would just seem practical that with her being 2 marks short is there in place the rigth for an Examiner to talk to her Instructor to get a full "all round" character report on, for example, her dedication, determination, morales etc & from this he can make the decision, that he will pass her for Interview, but maybe she would then have to gain marks in this Interview of 10% above the normal pass given if a Position of a Writer was to be offered.

Or can anyone advise that there are "Absolute" Rules & Regulations in Stone, so to speak, that do make reference to a Candidate being one, 2 or maybe 3 points below the pass mark of their choosen Position within the Navy. In other words absolute cyrstal 100% clarity is given that full marks allocated for each Profession have to be gained in the exam for this Position to be offered?

If that is the case, they I do have to say on a personal note, that the Navy are missing out on maybe a few excellent Candidatesd for say 2 points which they would make up in the Interview. I do know that my friend's young daughter will not consider any of the 6 positions offered because, as she did state to me, every Serving Person within the Royal Navy has a role/position to fullfil regardless of their rank for the Navy to fully function at his best. So could this put into question that if Candidates did actually decide that they would take a lower Position offered, not within the Department they would excel in or be able to transfer over to in later serving years, simply through 2 marks below their choosen vocation, then this could have serious & even disasterous consequnces if at anytime in the future the Royal Navy are asked to fullfil their role to defend Blighty - how can the working coggs turn & be as efficient & effective as they should be if some Serving Personal do not harbour their 110% dedication for the Position they accepted, rather than the Positon above that they were dedicated & wanted to fulfil.

Finally, I am now climbing off my upturned wooden orange box & posting this long winded forum. I just hope I have done her justice in the information, but please do ask if you need any further clarifications. OOtherwise I look forward to any help/advice or messages to ask me not to post another forum in the future, but to maybe write a book for Jackanory as I can easily send an adult to sleep, let alone a child!!! :roll:

In short:

Can discretionary points be awarded?

Short Answer:

No. If applicable, the application would not have been deferred.


Longer Answer:

It's a case of glass half-full/glass half empty.

A person "only two points short", if one peruses the summary of entry standards (Book of Reference{BR3}, Chapter 5, Article 0527, page 5-18), one will see that in actual fact that out of a possible 120 questions, at least 59 were answered incorrectly or not answered.

The recruiting test has been used since 1943 to assess the intellectual capacity of the individual to complete trade training, in certain circumstances (BR3, Chapter 15, Article 1503), in certain trades, up to five discretionary points maybe considered - those that fall into the discretionary zone are automatically put forward for interview to assess whether they have the attributes to merit a waiver - those outside of this zone are counselled to re-sit the recruiting test.

Incidentally, a question in exchange for an answer: Which 'Naval College' did she attend in Portsmouth?
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
piewhacket it may assist you to know that Ninja Stoker works at a recruiting center.

I was also curious about the Naval College?
 

chatsharris

Lantern Swinger
janner said:
piewhacket it may assist you to know that Ninja Stoker works at a recruiting center.

I was also curious about the Naval College?

Until someone tries to out him as a walt :roll: :D
 

soleil

War Hero
Re: RN Pscyhometric Examination - 2 points short to be a Wri

PW

Which 6 jobs has she been offered?

What attracts her to the post of Writer?
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
jockgolly said:
Writer's not a good job to go for. People will hate you and blame you for their shoite pay. I know I do!

In these supposedly "modern" days of JPA, it is unfortunately less possible to blame scribes for making an arse of our pay as we can do it ourselves without their help :lol:

Then again, it's still good value blaming the Logs Pers for it...
 

Guzzler

War Hero
Re: RN Pscyhometric Examination - 2 points short to be a Wri

It is indeed Ninja, but a new problem I've witnessed since the advent of JPA is Writers, particularly junior ones, trying to 'be your oppo and play the system on what they believe is your behalf and leading people into the dodgy world of fraud, which I'm sure you are aware is currently a major issue.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Yep, scary stuff.

It never ceases to amaze me that someone will risk millions of pounds worth of potential income through wages & pension for the sake of fiddling comparatively minor claims for a few hundred quid.

I know of a PO Stoker who, several years back,was awarded £50K redundancy. What did he do? He submitted a fraudulent motor mileage claim for £70 quid, got found out, lost the lot: Job, redundancy payment, pension, everything. Stunning stupidity.
 

Guzzler

War Hero
Re: RN Pscyhometric Examination - 2 points short to be a Wri

Aye, the tales are many. Old oppo of mine, killick writer, joined boats, fairly fast track to coxwain, submitted duty travel claim and leave one (C30/C28 - you know what I mean) for same weekend. Stupidy stupidy stupid.

Cheerio via 18 months or so in Winchester nick.

My last two years I was paranoid about putting in any claims!
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Re: RN Pscyhometric Examination - 2 points short to be a Wri

Yep, the irony of it all is that if we were elected members of parliament, it would be entirely legitimate. Apparently. :lol:
 

tommo

War Hero
I knew a PO(R) on my first ship who submitted a travel claim to his home address. However we got recalled at 24 hour notice back to the ship and they rang his home his wife said he no longer lived there as they had split. He got busted to AB and outside
 

chatsharris

Lantern Swinger
I hate that about some writers too, but it makes me laugh when they're caught out, and they have to explain that they've fucked up and that they would have a GPD on their system (That bit doesn't make me laugh)

When I was in Faslane UPO I used to advise people on putting claims in, and a lot of people didn't know about day subs for 5hrs+ duty travel, so they were chuffed when they could get scran money back! Perfectly legal, and they'll still like you at the end of the day :)

Best amount I managed to give someone back was £13,000. A Diver didn't realise he was on the wrong level of diving pay for about 3 years!
 
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