RN handed over to the RAF

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Ageing_Gracefully, Oct 26, 2015.

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  1. Ageing_Gracefully

    Ageing_Gracefully War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

  2. As I suspect you know, that's not what it means at all except to DM readers and others with impaired intellect. I hope that category doesn't include you.

    I'm not rising. ;)
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  3. Lots of outrage in that article but no indication of what job he is actually doing? Anyone....
  4. Effectively senior SRO for the entire programme of CEPP - ships, aircraft, helicopters, the whole 9 yards.
  5. Ageing_Gracefully

    Ageing_Gracefully War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Who will he report to? Zambellas or the CDS?
  6. Regardless of what colour his suit is:

    His track record isn't brilliant. He's been rumbled a couple of times in the past for not having too much of a clue about his own service let alone the RN. He's made public gaffes about decision making policy and he also had a hand in a fair few Typhoon training faffs which led to them not training for Ground Attack.

    No confidence, but then my opinion doesn't matter.
  7. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    I thought for a moment-until I read on- that you were referring to Admiral West.
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  8. SRO I get but in what post? Something in the MoD I assume where his long history of being a project manager will no doubt ensure this all comes together effectively ...... :)
  9. Admiral West has become the RN's Katie Hopkins.
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  10. A 3* responsible for delivering a joint (strategic?) capability and equal in rank and status to the single-service Chiefs of Materiel for Fleet, Land and Air? My guess would be direct to Sir Bernard Gray, Chief of Defence Materiel and Head of Defence Equipment & Support (DE&S). It wouldn't surprise me if Sir Bernard had appointed him, too.

    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
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  11. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Well, if an RAF officer is driving an aircraft carrier project, I claim first dibs driving the outrage bus on the grounds I've never driven one & I'm shit at driving also :)
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  12. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Sir Bernard was relieved months ago. The hand over to his relief was recently completed, a chap called Tony Douglas who is has been parachuted into the post from industry.

    AM Hillier has been in the CEPP post for a while too -the outrage bus is a slow, steam driven, coal fired affair. He isn't - as far as I can see from my chair on the ground floor of QEC - involved in building or commissioning and certainly won't be sitting in the old man's chair.
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  13. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Seems I'm over-qualified :(
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  14. Ageing_Gracefully

    Ageing_Gracefully War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    So, and @Seadog 's post noted, we have an RAF officer leading the major RN project for decades, past and to come, and he does not even report to a sailor.

    This can only go well for the senior Service, I think not!

    Looks like we are going down the Canadian route of complete jointety, which was such a success that the Canuks binned it.

    The senior RN officers cohort can't be feeling too comfortable with this.

    Or has the carrier project shown to be heading for a catastrophe and no naval officer wants to touch it!! :)
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  15. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

  16. Relax. It's all part of the plan.
    In 2018 he'll be promoted to Admiral as the 100 year experiment draws to a close and the RAF is subsumed into the Navy and the Army.

    He is the Chosen One.
    Balance will be restored to The Force.
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  17. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    :)Which was what I hinted at in my 'yet' post in the Midshipmen's Seniority thread.
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  18. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    Or alternatively, a quick glance at project delivery shows you appoint the right person for the job. For instance T45 had a Brigadier running it for a while, and while I can't recall specifics off hand, I know RN types have led Army and RAF projects - its just about putting square pegs in square holes.

    Wearing dark blue doesnt magically make you an expert project manager, nor does it mean that you can deliver and integrate an incredibly complex project. In this case we need to deliver and integrate two ships, which are the most complex vessels the RN has ever operated. We need to then integrate an airwing which can in theory consist of any airframe type the UK operates, and get the JSF project to deliver sufficient airpower to enable us to get back into fixed wing operations. Thats the prize at stake, and whinging that its not fair that an RN guy isn't doing it is childish in the extreme.

    If AM Hillier fails, then he will be hung out to dry. But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, I expect him to be as hands on as any other 3* with a complex portfolio covering multiple projects.
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  19. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    The thing about senior and very senior officers and their CS and industry equivalents is that they don't need to know much. They need to be able to expertly Command/Lead/Manage subordinates who know more. Most ship's Captains know very little about marine engineering, ( the USN and a high profile recently retired RCCL Captain are exceptions ) but they have command of those who do. Few make good chefs.

    I seem to recall that the Senior British Officer for TELIC 1 was a Crab ( Sir Brian Burridge) and General Eisenhower's D Day deputy was a Crab ( ACM Tedder ) who knew very little about ships, amphibious and armoured warfare. Ike was a big 'joint' fan and I'm not suggesting he would have failed CDT. Ike's combat experience was next to nothing. Among his talents were managing his subordinate generals, particularly Patton and Montgomery.

    Command and Staff Courses teach a lot about the other branches' capabilities, ORBAT and the 'how', even at Intermediate level, let alone Advanced and Higher.

    No need to fret.
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  20. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Belay my last. I've just seen QE's ships company fall in and march off......sideways.
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