RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging fire

[stumpy]

Bloody hell, well done Royal and Army Air Corp.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6269613.stm

And we are told that they have enough helicopters in Afghanistan...

 

[stumpy]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue - Afghanistan

I know that technically this should have been part of the existing KIA thread but I felt that it deserved its own. A truly heroic, but traggic, effort.

 

[stumpy]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

More info from the Times:

"After deciding they did not want to leave his body, the Apache pilots suggested the rescue mission."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2551747,00.html

Well done Army Air Corp.

 

[Chalky]

Well done to all.

A glowing example of what makes the respective Corps of Her Majesty great.

 

[finknottle]

Our finest, well done to the Royal Marines and the Aircrew involved and I hope in some small way it is of comfort to Mathew's loved ones that Royal would not leave one of their fallen Comrades in Arms.

 

[noemis]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

Truly inspiring!! God bless them all!! Our Government does't deserve men like these!!

 

[chieftiff]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

The most refreshing thing about this story is that in our H&S, bureaucratic, procedure obsessed Armed Forces there are still those with the common sense and balls to do things their own way and f*ck the consequences. Well done lads and RIP Royal.

 

[nutty_bag]

Has a feel of when the german paratroopers strapped themselves onto the wings of aircraft and jumped into the snow during the invasion of Poland. Not quite the same, but in both cases there was absolute courage and dedication to the task in hand. Well done Royal and of course the Apache pilots that delivered them.

NB

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

No conflict with anything said so far but, before we get carried away, lets think about the consequences had this gone to rats**t. Risking 3 valuable flesh and blood assets and an operationally scarce machine to recover a dead comrade is not, to my mind, an acceptable risk. This is common practice for the Septics but, remember, that's how they got their arrses handed to them in a sling in Somalia.

That said, RIP L/Cpl Ford.

 

[nutty_bag]

I see your point POL but just think of the negative morale there would have been if he had been left behind, and or his mutilated body being shown on some raghead news station. I know if i was in their situation as a former bootneck myself i would have gone in without any question to recover the body.

 

[chieftiff]

No conflict with anything said so far but, before we get carried away, lets think about the consequences had this gone to rats**t. Risking 3 valuable flesh and blood assets and an operationally scarce machine to recover a dead comrade is not, to my mind, an acceptable risk. This is common practice for the Septics but, remember, that's how they got their arrses handed to them in a sling in Somalia.

That said, RIP L/Cpl Ford.

I rest my case, read my post. Reducing someones life to "an acceptable risk" is half the problem with todays 'leaders' I am afraid, next you will be telling us it posed a flight safety risk as someone could have "FODded" the engines and we could have lost a capability asset.

THIS IS A WAR ZONE!!!!! Men don't fight for Queen and Country Loggie, that may be why they join up but they fight for each other.(I didn't say that by the way, well I just did, but I stole it from someone else!) Never tell someone how to do something, tell them what needs doing and let them work it out, chances are they know better than you. ( I stole that too)

I wonder if they will be charged for for breach of procedure or awarded the VC/DFC's they deserve.

 

[finknottle]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

No conflict with anything said so far but, before we get carried away, lets think about the consequences had this gone to rats**t. Risking 3 valuable flesh and blood assets and an operationally scarce machine to recover a dead comrade is not, to my mind, an acceptable risk. This is common practice for the Septics but, remember, that's how they got their arrses handed to them in a sling in Somalia.

That said, RIP L/Cpl Ford.

You obviously have little understanding of Royal Marines and IMO you should have posted your thoughts elsewhere.

 

[nutty_bag]

There was a similar incident in 2001 at Qala-i-janghi fortress where a US navy Seal attached to SC's went into the fort after it was overthrown to recover the body of a CIA operator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amV0kMEKXU4

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

You obviously have little understanding of Royal Marines and IMO you should have posted your thoughts elsewhere.

I understood that the Royals had their own RM Forum. I've worked in direct contact with Booties and there are none finer, anywhere. They are mentally tough, incredibly brave and self motivated to the borders of foolhardiness. If you want a small craft and outboard motor testing to the limits of its capability in all WX states, give it to the boys at Poole.

I am not detracting from a single thing that the team did, including the AAC lad, as I said. I also cannot argue that the morale lift will be other than a real force multiplier. I was merely sounding a word of caution before people do get carried away. They got away with it and have earned an unreserved BZ but on another occasion with another, now further motivated, group? It could go to a total bloody mess in seconds and we don't have ready replacements to fill the gap, let alone stand the morale change.

The FOD aspect wasn't even a consideration. Any pilot who didn't take such basic precautions would not be a pilot for very long.

 

[chieftiff]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

You obviously have little understanding of Royal Marines and IMO you should have posted your thoughts elsewhere.

I understood that the Royals had their own RM Forum. I've worked in direct contact with Booties and there are none finer, anywhere. They are mentally tough, incredibly brave and self motivated to the borders of foolhardiness. If you want a small craft and outboard motor testing to the limits of its capability in all WX states, give it to the boys at Poole.

I am not detracting from a single thing that the team did, including the AAC lad, as I said. I also cannot argue that the morale lift will be other than a real force multiplier. I was merely sounding a word of caution before people do get carried away. They got away with it and have earned an unreserved BZ but on another occasion with another, now further motivated, group? It could go to a total bloody mess in seconds and we don't have ready replacements to fill the gap, let alone stand the morale change.

The FOD aspect wasn't even a consideration. Any pilot who didn't take such basic precautions would not be a pilot for very long.

And I am sure all concerned were more than aware of the risks! They took those risks, and for that they should recieve nothing but praise. We live in an age where too many supposed leaders preach caution, cost, assets, process, justification, mitigation, risk assessment, limitation, authorisation. These things are all well and good but when they place restrictions on the ability to lead men they are worthless, if you go through life making decisions based on the repurcussions of failure you will achieve nothing. None of us are in a position to second guess what these guys did, the £100 million pound asset was theirs to use, it was designed, procured and developed into service for the purpose of war not some bean counters' to store away for another day. Their lives are theirs to commit to a risk that they perceived as necessary, they live to fight another day and what's more they are probably better men for it, they will grieve but they will never regret what they did.

And that was a bollocking whether you like it or not! God how I hate the negativity which has permeated throughout the roots of a once proud nation. Rant over.

 

[Maxi_77]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

You obviously have little understanding of Royal Marines and IMO you should have posted your thoughts elsewhere.

I understood that the Royals had their own RM Forum. I've worked in direct contact with Booties and there are none finer, anywhere. They are mentally tough, incredibly brave and self motivated to the borders of foolhardiness. If you want a small craft and outboard motor testing to the limits of its capability in all WX states, give it to the boys at Poole.

I am not detracting from a single thing that the team did, including the AAC lad, as I said. I also cannot argue that the morale lift will be other than a real force multiplier. I was merely sounding a word of caution before people do get carried away. They got away with it and have earned an unreserved BZ but on another occasion with another, now further motivated, group? It could go to a total bloody mess in seconds and we don't have ready replacements to fill the gap, let alone stand the morale change.

The FOD aspect wasn't even a consideration. Any pilot who didn't take such basic precautions would not be a pilot for very long.

And I am sure all concerned were more than aware of the risks! They took those risks, and for that they should recieve nothing but praise. We live in an age where too many supposed leaders preach caution, cost, assets, process, justification, mitigation, risk assessment, limitation, authorisation. These things are all well and good but when they place restrictions on the ability to lead men they are worthless, if you go through life making decisions based on the repurcussions of failure you will achieve nothing. None of us are in a position to second guess what these guys did, the £100 million pound asset was theirs to use, it was designed, procured and developed into service for the purpose of war not some bean counters' to store away for another day. Their lives are theirs to commit to a risk that they perceived as necessary, they live to fight another day and what's more they are probably better men for it, they will grieve but they will never regret what they did.

And that was a bollocking whether you like it or not! God how I hate the negativity which has permeated throughout the roots of a once proud nation. Rant over.

Just to add on the subject of risk, the reason we tend to be winners is we do take risks, because the reward is success.

 

[janner]

Well put C_T BZ the Booties

 

[finknottle]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

Not a thread for flippancy but ' Bollocking Over' :???:

 

[greenking]

POL - get a life mate!!

I would venture to suggest that in the apparently unlikely event you were caught in a situation like this, your family would feel very moved by what this man's comrades were prepared to risk and ultimately did for him.

War is a nasty business, but if we fought it worrying about some of the things you have pointed out, then we are doomed to failure. Stick to what you're good at and let the warfighters get on with what they're good at.

Your negativity helps no-one sir.

GK

 

[stumpy]

Re: RM/AAC Rescue (Afghanistan) Strapped to Apache, dodging

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov2004/n11052004_2004110501.html

I found the above link on ARRSE and shows how it might have been done:

"Self-extraction was a maneuver the pilots had been told about in flight school -- a maneuver considered dangerous enough that no practical application was given, just the verbal "here's how you do it.""

Reading the posts on ARRSE it looks like a Royal Engineer was one of the 4, I guess an All Arms Cdo. The Army posts on ARRSE are very complimentary of Royal today, but these are my two favourite:

"I'm surprised the Apaches could fly considering the size of the balls on these guys."

and:

"Per mare, per terram, per Apache"

But seriously, I just heard bits of PM Questions, and am frustrated by how the politicians dropped the ball. A perfect time to ask the PM about the lack of support helicopters...