Right to bear arms

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by hobbit, Oct 24, 2006.

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  1. Given the violence in today's society in Western countries the matter of individuals carrying guns has become a controversial issue. In America I understand it is a constitutional right to bear arms.In Australia gun laws are very strict following a massacre in Tasmania some years ago when a deranged young man blasted about a dozen people away. Not sure about guns in UK but no doubt there is some control.
    My point, as one now in the older age bracket I am vulnerable to the many yobs roaming the streets and breaking into houses at will. Even on the road it is possible to be attacked and robbed. I drive with my car windows closed and doors locked. So , with a limited ability to defend myself against possible drug or drink charged yobs, or just plain bastards, should I be allowed to own a hand-gun for self defence?
    I believe I could be trusted with a gun, moreso than many currently allowed to do so. With the appropriate training I would feel much safer at home and when out and about what say other RRers?

    8)
     
  2. Hear what you are saying.
    Just wouldn't work with a real live round, get hold of a Taser from the US of A. Hurts like cufk, and no visible damage - if the donor has weak ticker, tough!
    If the antogonist is dead he cannot bring a case...........ring any bells any one?
     
  3. This is a common misconception, even amongst most US citizens. There is no right to bear arms. There is a right to bear arms in order to form a militia. Incidentally, constitutionally it is illegal for the USA to have a standing army - legally its army should only comprise a militia. Of course in reality... :lol: This is where the hypocrisy of conservative Supreme Court Judges comes into focus: those that believe in a strict interpretation in the narrowest passible way of the Constitution. Were they consistent, they would abolish the US Army in peacetime.

    As a matelot surely you should be seeking the right to bear a cutlass or a .303 rifle. At least the bayonet would double up as a spit when having a BBQ and at my school's Second Year Camp we also found them good for toasting marshmellows - you could roast a whole packet on one bayonet :oops:
     
  4. I'm too tired to debate Steve on the fine nuances of the US Constitution, and there is always the fear that it would degenerate into an ARRSE-like Anglo-American slugfest, that would be about as much fun as sticking my d!ck in a hornets nest.

    Instead, I'll just try to address Hobbits' post:
    Although it is legal here, I choose not to own a gun, nor have I ever owned one. Never saw the need, nor had the desire.
    Although I live in a relatively high-crime area, where drugs like methamphetamine are rampant, I don't feel any less secure for living unarmed.
    The gun culture here has enough wackos without me adding my name to the list 8O
     
  5. Thanks BY and to your point Never saw the need, nor had the desire although I don't know your age I suspect you are in a position to take care of your self quite well, fit, healthy and all that and it may be wise not to carry a gun in your case. In my case I don't venture out much after dark and no longer frequent places where trouble flares easily. It is at home I feel the need for such protection but in this country there will never be any allowance made for that after the massacre in Tasmania. Must admit though I feel rather vulnerable nowadays as the "law" doesn't provide any confidence.They are restricted by all this PC rubbish and often unsure of where they stand. It would be great to return to a safer environment.

    :D
     
  6. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    There is a total ban on anyone outside of the Police and Military owning handguns (with a few exceptions) in the UK, so anyones chance of legally carrying on for self protection is non existant
     
  7. janner wrote: There is a total ban on anyone outside of the Police and Military owning handguns (with a few exceptions) in the UK, so anyones chance of legally carrying on for self protection is non existant

    Doesn't seem to have stopped the problem though and despite the regular amnesties there still seems to be plenty of them around to be the cause of enough crimes. Personally I don't think we should have the right to bear arms, however banning the ownership of handguns has only driven the issue underground.

    SF
     

  8. Agree with you there SF. The Dunblane massacre was probably one of the most upsetting things I have ever heard/seen on the news (along with 9/11 - 7/7) but banning handguns following that was the wrong thing to do. It has driven it underground and now in my opinion it is far easier to purchase an illegaly owned weapon.

    On the debate of civilians having the right to carry firearms I would say this.

    1. The yobs/neds your protecting yourself from are also going to carry hanguns (or worse) if it becomes legal. Then its you armed against 8 of them armed!!

    2. Crime would spiral out of control and become more violent, as things like robbery, rape and even football hooliganism would end up being committed with firearms.

    3. If civilians started carrying firearms, how many of them do you think would pay for advanced firearm training? You get the senario where Joe Bloggs is in a situation that requires him to draw his weapon. He fires 6 rounds, but how many find the target? 1 maybe 2? That leaves 4 stray rounds unnacounted for. Would you like to be in the area when that happens?

    4. Even our own armed Police are likely to face a murder charge for slotting a criminal and we've seen a similar situation with British Troops. You might be able to protect yourself with a gun, but your looking at a 15 year stretch if you survive for killing "the bad guy".

    Take classes in a practical form of self defence for the street (ie. Krav Maga and not Karate). It will serve you far better in 99% of confrontational situations than a firearm will.
     
  9. To be honest it is difficult to know what the perfect solution to this problem is. A good start would be more Police with better powers, more prosecution and prison terms for first time offenders and longer sentences for repeat offenders.

    As it is there simply aren't enough prisons and by default not enough deterrent for these thugs. This doesn't just apply to gun crime though.

    SF
     
  10. Hobbit

    Within the UK certainly up to the year 2000 when a weapon was discharged i.e. it went bang in the course of crime and there was then a matching hole or holes, in the case of a shot gun, in a person, then over 80% of these weapons were lawfully held and licensed by either the person doing the shooting or a family member or a close personal friend of the family who could gain access due to lack security.

    Armed Gangsters who shoot people are still a rare occurrence except for the recent spate of Black on Black gang killings.

    Reduce even more the number of weapons of all types held in the UK and make statute sentences for possession of guns, parts and ammo so people know what they will get if found in possession. Lets start with 5 years no time off for guilty plea or good behaviour.

    Yes we will fore go Olympic Gold Medals for shooting

    Nutty
     

  11. Agreed. More Police, more power and less bureaucracy / overly PC bullshit. The 3 strikes and your out law gets my vote.

    We need to toughen up on youth action too. I know of a 12 year old girl - I swear this little bstrd is the spawn of satan!! She hs done the following that I know of:

    1. Beat a 14 year old girl to a pulp (with her mates helping out) then set her hair on fire.
    2. Beat a 10 year old boy with a hammer (broke his leg and pelvis I believe) and stole his bike.
    3. Locked a pensioner in a phonebox and opened the door occasionally to spit on her, then locked her in again.
    4. Broke in to a sheltered houseing scheme, stole fags from a pensioner and tried to set her front door on fire.
    5. Beat a girl (again with her friends watching) pulled her trousers down and pissed all over her head.
    6. Regularly damages cars, vans, property (mine included).

    Now she regularly walks the streets till all hours, drinking, smoking and causing havoc. The Police have done/cant do anything because of her age. None of "the victims" can do anything because we'd instantly be nicked (and she knows this) so what do we do?

    This country is far too soft now and we are suffering because of it. If kids/adults have no fear of the law, how can it be enforced?

    The Americans have it right here. Give the Police the powers to fight fire with fire, dont shaft them for doing the job and back them up when they have taken action.
     
  12. Are you suggesting waving a gun at this girl ( be it you or a police person) is going to in anyway help the situation? IMO I think it would make her think, yeah he's got a gun I'll go get myself a bigger one, cue this stiuation:

    3. If civilians started carrying firearms, how many of them do you think would pay for advanced firearm training? You get the senario where Joe Bloggs is in a situation that requires him to draw his weapon. He fires 6 rounds, but how many find the target? 1 maybe 2? That leaves 4 stray rounds unnacounted for. Would you like to be in the area when that happens?

    Seeing some of the weird and wonderful people they let into today's armed forces just seeing them standing on the gate with a gun in their hands sends shivers down my spine, let alone the thought of them wondering around the streets with one.

    Is youth crime today so out of control, or is it a media frennze, I can picture the reply now, well we never did it and would have had a clip round the ear from the local copper if we did. Just because you weren't doing it doesn't mean others weren't, it just wasn't so publised.

    Blame the youth of today for all socialtys ills, just who rasied the people who rasied todays youth with such little morial guideance?
     
  13. We need to toughen up on youth action too. I know of a 12 year old girl - I swear this little bstrd is the spawn of satan!! She hs done the following that I know of:

    1. Beat a 14 year old girl to a pulp (with her mates helping out) then set her hair on fire.
    2. Beat a 10 year old boy with a hammer (broke his leg and pelvis I believe) and stole his bike.
    3. Locked a pensioner in a phonebox and opened the door occasionally to spit on her, then locked her in again.
    4. Broke in to a sheltered houseing scheme, stole fags from a pensioner and tried to set her front door on fire.
    5. Beat a girl (again with her friends watching) pulled her trousers down and pissed all over her head.
    6. Regularly damages cars, vans, property (mine included).

    Now she regularly walks the streets till all hours, drinking, smoking and causing havoc. The Police have done/cant do anything because of her age. None of "the victims" can do anything because we'd instantly be nicked (and she knows this) so what do we do?

    With something like this euthenasia is without a doubt the only solution. Why stuff around with this walking the streets, humiliating young and old. No society should cop this and like a mad dog, BANG. Do gooders PC brigade get stuffed.Even prison would be a waste of time. This is beyond belief. I believe the police in Brazil had the answer to street kids like this, exterminate. Be honest, what would you do if this kid did something to your daughter or grandmother. Euthenasia would be doing the kid a favour and a blessing for the community.Cheese and rice, I'm still shaking my head in disbelief. In regard to crime and anti-social behaviour anyone interested have a look at crime-times org. Sorry I don't know how to create a link ,

    8O
     
  14. :lol:

    Dont know what planet your on this morning but when did I suggest anyone waving a gun at a little girl?
    What I said was that I agreed with SF - give the police more powers and less bureaucracy to deal with criminals. I also said we need to toughen up on youth action - that doesnt mean shooting them FFS!!!

    Re your comment about "wierd and wonderful" Forces Personnel with "guns". These wierd and wonderful people have at least had a decent level of weapon handling and safety training. Far more than your average civvy will ever have.
    In regards to that, how many incidents of Friendly Fire do we experience? Not that many to "send shivers down my spine" I have to say.
    Also how many Soldiers are "wondering around the streets" armed? Not where I live - yet :lol:
     
  15. Hobbit

    It makes me sick too. I have to watch this little bstrd swaggering about as if she owns the place, knowing there is fck all anyone can do to stop her.

    Its more frustrating than anything. If I even restrained her from hitting my car, beating someone up or worse, who do you think would get nicked!!
     
  16. Don't blame the state, blame the parents.
    Most of these little criminals come from unstable backgrounds. Look at any town/city in the UK and you will find areas where most of the criminals live. Normally these are large local authority housing estates. Almost invariably the parents of these juvenile delinquents are living on benefits and are unlikely to work as long as the state supports them. As they have never worked for a living they do not seem to have respect for other peoples property, everything they own has been bought for them by the taxpayer (Notice I said taxpayer & not the government as the government has no money). Children of parents like these are bound to grow up with no sense of responsibilities
    Before anyone gives me hard times I would like to add that I was brought up in council housing, my mother still lives in a council owned property and the greater majority of council tenants are extremely hard working law abiding citizens.
     

  17. Slim I agree with you 100%. I too was brought up in a very "bad" area but we all have choices and I chose to make something of my life. Your spot on when you say that the vast majority of people in these areas are good, hardworking, law-abiding citizens.

    This girls family are notorious as trouble makers (no surprise there), the majority of which are heroin addicts, drug dealers, thiefs and general criminals. It is the parents fault and I am in no way blaming the state for her behaviour. However regardless of whos fault it is, its down to the law to deal with it, as there is no chance of her parents doing anything - they simply dont care.

    I just cant understand why she is allowed to carry on regardless. Why hasnt she been taken into care/put in a childrens home? The Police are at her door every other day - the parents will give her a bit of a kicking and she will be back to normal the day after.
    Looking at how bad she is now and knowing its only going to get worse, something has to be done. If not other more easily influenced kids will be drawn in and see that with no rules & no punishments, they can do what they want.

    Remember this is one child in one area of the country - how many more are just like her?
     
  18. Know just what you mean, however in cases like this the local authority can remove the child from her parents and place her in care.
    Personnaly if a kids that bad at such a young age she is probably beyond redemption and should be given a holiday to Brazil
     
  19. This girls family are notorious as trouble makers (no surprise there), the majority of which are heroin addicts, drug dealers, thiefs and general criminals. It is the parents fault and I am in no way blaming the state for her behaviour. However regardless of whos fault it is, its down to the law to deal with it, as there is no chance of her parents doing anything - they simply dont care.

    I just cant understand why she is allowed to carry on regardless. Why hasnt she been taken into care/put in a childrens home? The Police are at her door every other day - the parents will give her a bit of a kicking and she will be back to normal the day after.
    Looking at how bad she is now and knowing its only going to get worse, something has to be done. If not other more easily influenced kids will be drawn in and see that with no rules & no punishments, they can do what they want.

    Remember this is one child in one area of the country - how many more are just like her?


    Now I have calmed down a bit and after reading this kid's background it appears to be the fault of the family. Looking at the heroin and drug dealing comment it is little surprise the kid is as she is. The first thing needed is to take her into some kind of care and away from the family.In regard to the cause of such behaviour in my reading on heavy metal toxicity I have found that heavy metal poisoning is one of the prime reasons for this type of behaviour. The web site I mentioned earlier , crime-times org, is a mine of information on this subject. Well worth a look for anyone interested in the wide spread anti-social behaviour of today.
    While you're at it take a look at Ortho-molecular medicine and Ortho-molecular psychiatry,

    8O
     
  20. Having read many of your postings I have formed the conclusion that you are either a vegetarian social worker or work in the social field.
    My feelings about social workers could not be printed here (possibly in Diamond Lills) I am of the strong opinion that social workers are the root of many of the countries problems. They try to see good in everyone even those that are beyond redemption, it is never the persons fault, they are always the victims of society.
    Time has come to cut out the crap, call a spade a spade and sort the little bstsds out with some unpleasant borstal time

    Of course you are entitled to your opinions
     

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