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RFA Privatisation Flap (Merged Threads)

Andrew_1980

Lantern Swinger
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Now I'm no expert by a longshot but since when have private contactors been cheaper than keeping it internal? How much have the US saved by using Halliburton / Xe etc?
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Andrew_1980 said:
Now I'm no expert by a longshot but since when have private contactors been cheaper than keeping it internal? How much have the US saved by using Halliburton / Xe etc?

You're relying on every day CDF, while the illusion of cost-savings is presetned by accountants - guess which one the politicians put greater faith in!
 

Andrew_1980

Lantern Swinger
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Crap, I'm so naive at times. Totally forgot CDF and politics are like oil and water.
 

mikh

MIA
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Short tem saving,! middle to long term kick in the teeth, very much the same as the way they went about getting new hospitals built
 

stirling2

Banned
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

mikh said:
Short tem saving,! middle to long term kick in the teeth, very much the same as the way they went about getting new hospitals built

Agreed, how much to insure vessels/crew when put in harms way, then there is the costly court cases for compo when the shit hits the fan.

Edited to add, no offence N-G but this should be in CA.
 
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

I think you will find that this is one of the bloody silly "brain storming" sessions that the Treasury seems to expect these days as part of the scrutiny process. Notwithstanding the financial assessment, the Impact Statement should kill it stone dead.

Remind me, did the Treasury ever get its medal from Galtieri for its contribution to CORPORATE?
 

fluffyspanners

Badgeman
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

don't ignore this just yet, this government already farmed out supply of army gear to andrew weirs in the form of the point class ships which the rfa used to do with the sea centurion and crusader, and the last time i was down the ascesion islands there was a mearsk tanker ready to do a spot of refuelling for the next time the argies feel frisky. and they got rid of the tugs to a private company, brown blair and mandy all need a directorship of some company once they finally get ousted from parliment

just remembered think the tugs went to Denholms
 
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

It might be worth remembering that the LSLs were operated by the British India Line before being taken over by the RFA. Also, lugging Army kit from port installation to port installation is barely afloat support. The resident Maersk tanker at ASI has been a feature since '82 and saves the expense of a permanent fuel farm. Mearsk also provide the bulk fuel supply to Gib, Cyprus, ASI and FI.

The commercialisation of the RMAS and PAS to Serco Denholm does have disadvantages but seems to be working OK (in peacetime).

I would say, "relax". Fleet has only just gained full control of the RFA and isn't likely to give up a key asset lightly.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Far more likely that the RFA will be fully rolled up into the RN and save money that way.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Far more likely that the RFA will be fully rolled up into the RN and save money that way.

How do you see that working? There isn't conscription for 18 year olds in this country, let alone for the over 50s.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Seadog said:
Far more likely that the RFA will be fully rolled up into the RN and save money that way.

How do you see that working? There isn't conscription for 18 year olds in this country, let alone for the over 50s.


Doesn't need 'conscription'… RFA come under RN anyway during warlike stuff, funded by MOD)N), Occifers go to Dartmouth… they may still be technically 'Merchant Navy' but they are effectively RN in all but name. Let the current crews work out their engagements on their existing terms if they want, all new intake go through Raleigh etc and are RN. Extra manpower across the fleet, harmonize wages and leave, remove a tier of command …

The Bay Class LPD's are being used as de facto warships anyway… they may as well be HMS Largs Bay etc.
 

dunkers

War Hero
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

If BP gets the RFA tankers, will the RN get Nectar points every fuel RAS? Every cloud...
 

PartTimer

War Hero
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Oil_Slick said:
Seadog said:
Far more likely that the RFA will be fully rolled up into the RN and save money that way.

How do you see that working? There isn't conscription for 18 year olds in this country, let alone for the over 50s.


Doesn't need 'conscription'… RFA come under RN anyway during warlike stuff, funded by MOD)N), Occifers go to Dartmouth… they may still be technically 'Merchant Navy' but they are effectively RN in all but name. Let the current crews work out their engagements on their existing terms if they want, all new intake go through Raleigh etc and are RN. Extra manpower across the fleet, harmonize wages and leave, remove a tier of command …

The Bay Class LPD's are being used as de facto warships anyway… they may as well be HMS Largs Bay etc.

There are even RFA PWOs now aren't there?
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

The problem with incorporation is that many RFA personnel are in the RFA as they don't want to be in the RN. Merge the two together, and watch as many UK merchant seaman join other firms, and we're left with even more gaps to fill. Additionally, the RFA is the single largest employer of UK merchant seamen – lose this and you ring the death knell of the Merchant Navy – no matter how persuasive the logic may be, we’d be unlikely to see such a move.

The only way you could do it would be to stop recruitment of new entry on RFA T&C, and slowly trickle extra manpower into the RFA fleet – there is still a danger that the older people with a lot of experience may well leave if this occurs.
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

First RFA PWO qualified in 1986 - do keep up.

If RFA is farmed out it will be interesting to see how skill requirements are quantified in the contract plus any conditions on nationality of officers and crew. However we used to have Hong Kong Chinese manned RFAs (with British RFA officers) - e.g. Fort Charlotte 1956, don't know whether non-Chinese would have so happily cleaned up after the Captain's tame rabbit.
 

PartTimer

War Hero
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Seaweed said:
First RFA PWO qualified in 1986 - do keep up.

That long ago? Bloody hell. I was chatting with an RFA PWO a little while back, but thought my memory may be playing tricks on me.
 
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Seaweed said:
First RFA PWO qualified in 1986 - do keep up.

If RFA is farmed out it will be interesting to see how skill requirements are quantified in the contract plus any conditions on nationality of officers and crew. However we used to have Hong Kong Chinese manned RFAs (with British RFA officers) - e.g. Fort Charlotte 1956, don't know whether non-Chinese would have so happily cleaned up after the Captain's tame rabbit.

When one considfers there a serveral ship managment companies in the UK with many years of experience the technical skills to manage the RFA from a commercial operation certainly exist as does the means of controlling the security status of those who work in MOD contracts.

Mind you considering the continuing swing towards militarisation of the RFA over the last 40 or so years perhaps full integration into the RN as is done in many other countries, may be more sensible from the operational point and still provide cost savings.
 

TheRowan

Lantern Swinger
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

Of the two options, I'd much prefer the RFA to be taken in-house than to be farmed out to the private sector... although I think that the current system is preferable to either option.
 

WhiteRose

Lantern Swinger
Re: Privatisation of RFA?

My fear is that of all the rumours and tin-pot, half-cocked leaks to the media of spending cut ideas, one of them is going to stick.

The sooner the speculation stops, and someone's bold enough to actually take a decision, the better.

Edited to add: ooh look, pig flying overhead....
 
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