Reservist Pay Award - FR2020

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by foxy82, Jul 4, 2013.

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  1. I noticed this in the white paper but not widely reported in the main stream media:


    "The Reservist Award includes payments to make up any difference between the reservists civilian salary and their military salary during periods of mobilisation. It is a critical part of the success of the mobilisation process, however, the current system has lead to a small number of highly-paid civilians to receive a very high Reservist Award, even when they are employed in non-specialist military roles. We recognise that this does not always provide the best value for money to the tax payer.
    We will therefore restructure the Reservist Award to place a cap on the level of financial assistance paid to those in non-specialist roles. This approach will allow us to continue to pay higher Reservist Awards to those in specialist roles, such as surgeons, where it is important that we are able to attract the most talented individuals."

    I don't know what the limit will be but I guess that means - either you deploy at a financial penalty to yourself, create a group of reservists that will never be deployed because it costs too much, or lose those people - will be interesting to see what they come up with in 2014.
  2. I think for the vast majority of people this won't have much effect.

    This is being brought in to stop City boys on 6 figure salaries deploying as privates.

    It can only be a good thing really, why should a banker on £150,000 a year go and have a jolly adventure in Afghanistan funded by the tax payer alongside lads earning 1/10th of what they do?

    If you're a high earner the message is clear, bring something to the table and prove your worth to earn your reservist award. i.e. join in a specialist role where your intelligence and experience can be utilised more efficiently.
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  3. Alternatively, let's jack up privates' pay to six figures :)
  4. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    ...not if they only turn up for drill nights once every three weeks.
  5. I guess it really depends on the limit - but I'd have though paying someone even twice the pay of a Private doesn't represent much value for money - that would only be around £40k which could affect a lot more people - I agree it doesn't make much financial sense putting bankers in Private roles though.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  6. Indeed. People that dedicated will do it for pennies.
  7. A lawyer deployed, as a Lt, and he got the max top up, what people don't know, is that even with the top up, he still took a £120,000 pay cut. He never complained, and just got on with the job.
  8. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    But isn't that the point of the Reserve Forces? Pretty much most RNR threads on here are asking about how to claim for this, who is eligible for that, the admin in this unit is crap, etc... it's a voluntary commitment, not discovering a cure for cancer! While I would never try to take anything away from the operational achievements of those that do so voluntarily in the defence of the nation, I'm sure I am not alone when I hear about financial (i.e. not budgetary) concerns, because it should never be about the money.

    I give up my spare time to work for three voluntary charitable organisations when I can, and I know I can claim for certain expenses. But I choose not to because it would feel morally unfair. So when we hear about Reservists discussing how they can be financially rewarded or compensated for their time and effort, then perhaps we should start thinking about someone's true agenda for "volunteering".
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  9. In this context, RNR volunteering is much closer to RN volunteering than charity volunteering. What "agenda" would you consider to be acceptable or unacceptable for joining the RNR?

    What's an unacceptable "agenda"? Should they be completely unpaid, in your opinion, or is it just hearing them talk about being paid that gets on your nerves? :)
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
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  10. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Oh, I'm as outraged about this or pretty much anything else discussed about/by Reservists as I am about the crud at the bottom of my empty coffee mug. I was just trying to say that sometimes it's best to see things in context rather than being insular.

    If the financial/administrative situation was truly that bad within the RNR, why are you or others like you still doing it? I'm thankful that you are and even considered it myself when I left. I appreciate that it is not nice to be expected to do an operational role or attend training courses (see previous topics abou lack of kit, etc.) but you may not have noticed, but pretty much the rest of the world is going through a little bit of a financial crisis at the moment, so pennies are counted and unnecessary expenditure is being scrutinised, so as well as your time being sacrificed, other things have to give.

    So if a travel claim is being clawed back or you have to do some sewing to take up a pair of trollies because Stores doesn't have your size in stock, then so be it. Adapt, improvise overcome. Or slap your chit in. Because that's the only sort of action that the bean counters in MoD will notice the sort of disharmony that many are voicing on here.

    In my own field (policing), most Forces have pretty much ceased recruiting; the only way in now is via an internal route. I became a Special Constable as this is one of the only avenues in these days (that or PCSO/Custody Officer/Police Staff). During my time as an SC I was routinely out of pocket for a variety of things and my uniform clothing was limited to the bare essentials (one shirt/trousers, boots to be self-provided) and yet we were expected to do our duty alongside full-time officers with identical powers and responsibilities, for no pay in our own time. But I didn't complain because I was doing something I love, supporting my community with a view to joining when the opportunity allowed. Even as a full-time officer, claims are routinely not submitted because it is not worth the bother for the sake of a few quid, because many of us would rather that few quid being spent on some decent stationery or a spare battery for a radio.

    Do you see where I am coming from now? This is not an anti-RNR drip, but just putting things into context. The days of the MOD spunking money on things they can no longer afford are no longer with us; as soon as that frugal attitude trickles down to all levels (be it RN or RNR) the better.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
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  11. Essentially, because that's the only thing that's bad. The financial side is fine, it really is; it's just the admin that's a perpetual headbang. If the steer comes down that something simply isn't payable, that's fine. Of course it is. The aggro comes when it's just badly administered. It's particularly frustrating to many reservists who spend their day jobs in organisations where the processes with the same purpose work well.

    To some degree, a lot of the past problems have come from trying to apply what works in the RN to the RNR. The divisional system, for example; as a means of admin in the RN, it's great. In the RNR, in many ways it just doesn't fit.
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  12. Have you ever served full time? I only ask as you seem to think the RN's admin runs smoothly.
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  13. I've been mobilised but that's as close as I've been. I must say I did think that admin in the RN worked better than in the RNR; I suppose to get a decent objective measure I'll have to find someone who's done both.
  14. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Aplies to both full- and part-time Navy, apparently...

  15. You can see the argument from both sides. I believe that the limit for a non medic is £200k a year pro rata. If someone is earning more than that then of course they are taking a loss but the beancounters certainly do not see it that way. VFM is the argument for just about everything in these austere days. There will also be an element of the green eyed monster no doubt.
    Take the NHS - a nurse costs say £40k a year with pension and training and leave. Book a locum nurse overnight and don't be surprised if you get invoiced £1,000 - that's the cost of bringing in a fully trained person at short notice. Surely the same with the reserve forces?
    Interestingly enough I bet Taliban bullets don't differentiate between the privates earning £15k and bankers earning £200k.
  16. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    SJRM - I know of several 'niche' areas where reservists with skill sets acquired through the RNR, which the RN deems to be of significant value, have been able to turn up at very short notice to support the RN. The reason they do this is because the RN has yet to get sufficient people with the right skills and flexibility to be released from what they are doing to do the job in question.
  17. Under DMS2020, significant proportions of the Defence Medical Services have been passed in toto to the Reserves. Severe Head Injury? Your entire care chain, from Neurosurgeon, to Neuro-specialist Anaesthetist, most engaged in Theatres to everyone on the Neuro ICU, will be reservists. And the Defence Medical Services will contribute not one single penny to their training. That's not the only speciality passed to the Reserves.

    That won't be the only niche area - I could imagine that the MTO guys rely a lot on the Merchant Navy to provide some of the requisite skills.

    I appreciate the point you were trying to make, but it exemplifies an attitude displayed by Regulars towards Reservists: we want something for nothing.
  18. I disagree. The Reservist is brought in at short notice. If you need to generate additional manpower in the RN then this comes with massive cost - creating an additional space in the mob, training the person, paying them plus pension and all the other on costs plus the pipeline to get them to usefulness. I'm no accountant but I would not be surprised if a full time AB probably 'costs' the Government about £100,000 a year. It's not just the salary and pension, it's all of the infrastructure, training, and whole of life costs (isn't there one civil serpent per two in uniform?) True that the RNR bod has a cost on an annual basis but I would argue much much less - a few quid in days and T&S, no pension (currently), a bonus and obviously some infrastructure costs. Give him 28 days notice and you have generated an additional bod on a very cost effective basis and at short notice. The reservist award in the bigger picture is a small price to pay for the organisation from a commercial basis.
    I bet that the civil serpent bean counters don't know what the difference is though - considering what is relevant and not relevant in any calculation would be a bugger's picnic. Obviously they have worked out that Reserves are cheaper on a whole life basis - you only have to read the papers on this - particularly the TA.
  19. Yes I get all of that. Unlikely that RN planning on the strategic basis is that tight unless CORPORATE type scenario. I think that the RN 'short notice' like the turn up tonight please scenario is approx. two weeks.
    So I think that we do agree!
  20. On other side of that, why should I stand on a gangway for 6 hours with a guy in full time role who is same level as me but earns way more than me just because he is full time.

    Its not the fault of either but if you for instance get called out and your a chemist but earn vastly greater salary than full time guy whos fault is that, have we to tell these guys your not welcome in the RNR cheerio?

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